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Thread: N.E. Clean Power Connect in Maine - Should we care ?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    I guess we can agree on one thing, Mass should be generating their own "carbon neutral" power, be it nuclear or other.
    So each State should generate power comparable to their consumption? Is that really practical?

    I used to do boiler inspection of the Mohave Units in Laughlin Nevada. Those units were downwind of the California Electric Utilities that were the major stakeholders; so I can appreciate the issues involved and apparent hypocrisy. As current example, I believe the Colstrip Units still export their power to the West Coast on their DC line.

    Should this idea of "make our own power" be extended to other resources such as fuel refining and food production? The mid-Atlantic States deal with issues associated with all the chicken processing.

    land fills and waste recovery plants (trash burners)?

  2. #92
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    Massachuseets should either work on generating their own power, or work on significantly reducing what they already use. They can't be the same people behind "RESTORE" the north woods and then want to build a power corridor through the same woods. When CMP was locally owned and operated, it was a much better steward. Now that its foreign owned and operated, its universally hated.
    Agreed. Allowing a foreign company to operate something as vital to US security as electric power generating and distribution systems is the height of stupidity.

  3. #93
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    Not just a foreign power, there is also a security threat from a couple of individuals with readily available public knowledge and legal firearms. They can knock out 2 GWs (2000 MW) of power to southern New England in a couple of minutes. Overhead powerlines are inherently not something that can be secured. Do it on a cold winter day when there is inadequate natural gas supply to run both power plants and home heating and Mass is looking at rolling blackouts. The last time an idiot took out the line running down the NH VT border target practicing, it took a couple of days to get it up an running.

  4. #94
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    Not just a foreign power, there is also a security threat from a couple of individuals with readily available public knowledge and legal firearms. They can knock out 2 GWs (2000 MW) of power to southern New England in a couple of minutes. Overhead powerlines are inherently not something that can be secured. Do it on a cold winter day when there is inadequate natural gas supply to run both power plants and home heating and Mass is looking at rolling blackouts. The last time an idiot took out the line running down the NH VT border target practicing, it took a couple of days to get it up an running.
    So true. Yet, when a 60 mile section of Northern Pass was proposed to be buried, there was still an uproar. In some cases it increased opposition because underground line construction usually entails more disruption. The fact is that nobody wants to have their surrounding environment impacted by these projects. So, it seems only fair that those communities that require additional power bear most (all?) of the pain.

  5. #95
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    Deregulation of the electric power industry has pushed our grid into some vulnerable operating conditions. Industry decisions are now made based on profit alone. As much as I do not believe in regulation; the electric utility industry, where all power is delivered through a single grid, should have remained regulated. There was a lot more redundancy when the industry was regulated. Our NP & ME Connect conversation might be very different (or non-existant) if the industry were still regulated. In New England, burning wood waste is considered to be renewable energy. Despite the big push for renewable energy, many of the wood waste plants in ME are closed because the power generated by these plants is not economical to generate.

    There is an economic advantage to the historic placement of many of the largest power plants away from thier actual customer base. Some of the largest coal fired power plants in the US were in or near native american reservations. The jobs offered by the power plants and the associated mining and other industries made a huge economic impact on these communities. Now that coal has gone out of favor (rightfully so) these populations in MT, AZ & NM will suffer the economic loss

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    So, it seems only fair that those communities that require additional power bear most (all?) of the pain.
    So why didn't ME and NH want the refineries? They rely on fuel oil more than any other states in the country. Maybe we can move all the LNG infrastructure north a few miles, too? Making individual communities wholly responsible for their own energy needs seems a bit impractical in a place as small as New England.

  7. #97
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    This adds some confusion. starting to look like a certain pipeline out west. If passed my guess is the developers would sue the State of Maine for costs incurred to date unless there is proceed at risk clause somewhere in mix.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...for-referendum

    Lots of good replies to drift the thread but figured I would try to keep it specific to the actual power line

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshandBaron View Post
    So why didn't ME and NH want the refineries? They rely on fuel oil more than any other states in the country. Maybe we can move all the LNG infrastructure north a few miles, too? Making individual communities wholly responsible for their own energy needs seems a bit impractical in a place as small as New England.

    My familiarity with this line of questioning goes way back to the mid 1970's, and the bottom line hasn't changed. It is quite simple, really--Maine has few harbors suitable for either oil or LNG, and the ones that are deep enough either have no room ( Portland/SoPortland, Portsmouth) or are up in the Bay of Fundy ( Eastport) where the extreme tidal rise and fall makes off-loading difficult, and even more difficult to engineer safely.

    it isn't a political or economic issue of desire or want for the states, it is a geographic and topological consequence of how the continents separated.

  9. #99
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    Since WW2 up until about 10 years ago South Portland was major oil terminal for smaller tankers. All the crude was pumped to refineries in Montreal. The concept was that Montreal was not vulnerable to attacks from the coast. The Irving refinery in St John New Brunswick pretty well supplies much of New England with refined products, they can offload super tankers and Irving effectively owns the province so they dont have to worry about public opposition.

  10. #100
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    An update

    https://www.pressherald.com/2021/02/...ower-struggle/

    CMP also made the news negatively this week when they threw major roadblock to the booming solar industry in Maine that started after the new Governor and legislature got into power

    https://www.mainepublic.org/post/mai...ystem-upgrades.

    The Clean Power project was "out of sight out of mind" for a long time in southern Maine which tends to call the political shots in Maine. This is arguably why the transmission project got as far as it did. Solar on the hand is a hot button issue that plays very well in southern Maine and the groups promoting it are very well connected with southern Maine and Maine politics. This additional bad PR fuels the anti CMP campaign and no doubt will help the second referendum to stop the transmission line. It also could put some more interest for the state to take over the power system.

  11. #101
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    And CMP has taken major lumps over its strange / erratic billing practices which I believe resulted in a State investigation.

    Not your friendly local monopoly utility!
    Nobody told me there'd be days like these
    Strange days indeed -- most peculiar, mama
    .

  12. #102
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    Kind of depressing when they drag an old CEO out of retirement to try to get some credibility back. He is looking out of his element these days when he does press interviews.

    My guess is Avangrid will figure out a way split the transmission side out from the consumer side and spin it off.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 02-07-2021 at 02:56 PM.

  13. #103
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    It is kind of interesting that CMP's spokewoman, Cate Hartnett, is no stranger to Berlin/Gorham NH. She was a stage driver for a couple years at MWAR, she and her SO retro-fitted their home in Berlin to get out from under PSNH ( now Eversource). Many people are much more than they seem to be.

  14. #104
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    Many folks are not opposed or support "clean power" as long as its not in their backyard. This is why several Mass based environmental groups support bringing in power that is questionably green from Canada. The other aspect is the Golden Rule, he/she who has the gold makes the rules . The sad part is the vast majority of the long term profits of CPC go out of the country using right of ways that were purchased long ago by ratepayers in Maine.

    With the renewed focus on decarbonizatioon, there is a lucrative industry to turn fossil based power into "green" power on paper by taking advantage of loopholes. In this case CPC is effectively just rebranding canadian natural gas power into hydro. Electrons cant be dyed green, its all just complex paperwork to keep track of what sources were used to supply them. Probably a good use for block chain.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 02-13-2021 at 05:01 AM.

  15. #105
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    Looks like there are plenty of signatures for the second referendum

    https://wgme.com/news/local/anti-cmp...ovember-ballot

    CMP took the last vote to court twice and eventually got the Maine Supreme Court to invalidate the results so I expect the legal docket will fill up again. Meanwhile CMP will throw the maximum amount of resources at the sections of the line they can build to make it harder to shut the project down.

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