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Thread: Reminder - Berlin ATV Festival on this weekend

  1. #16
    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    I don't believe you've said this. Speculation for one and it's a fact hikers don't pay their share for their burden they cost. Many ATV's also hunt,fish and snowmachine. Fact still remains hikers don't pay the costs they give us. Couple that with AMC's tax free status.
    Well if they are facts, I guess we can't argue...
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    Couple that with AMC's tax free status.
    Curious what AMC's tax status has to do with SAR funding?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshandBaron View Post
    Curious what AMC's tax status has to do with SAR funding?
    Well, if they paid state taxes to NH, that's more money to the state, right? I'm pretty sure the AMC has too much money to spend foolishly after the new logo was unveiled.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    I don't believe you've said this. Speculation for one and it's a fact hikers don't pay their share for their burden they cost. Many ATV's also hunt,fish and snowmachine. Fact still remains hikers don't pay the costs they give us. Couple that with AMC's tax free status.
    No speculation here, Cap'n.

    I'll dig up last year's numbers given some time. I've got the figures on ATV accidents from 2018.

    As my HS math teacher said, "figures don't lie, but liars figure."

    Your post is tremendous.
    Humankind has not woven the web of life.
    We are but one thread within it.
    Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
    All things are bound together.
    All things connect.
    ~ Chief Seattle, 1854 ~

  5. #20
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    Yes, its over and was reportedly quite successful for the local economy. Local groups and vendors have come up with various activities to fill the summer and into fall weekends but this is it for major events this year. There was a fall event sponsored by one of the major ATV makers for a couple of years but it shifted somewhere else.

  6. #21
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    Need a new name or a new agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    if you see any ATV enthusiasts maybe you should thank them.
    their yearly OHRV registration fees pay for the bulk of the hiker 'rescues'
    ($104 for non residents)
    I resurrect this not to debate or denigrate anyone's perspective stated through this thread- but post here since it has an excellent foundation of information for thought on what is driving me crazy over the past few days.

    It's really unfortunate that our Conservation Officers valuable time has to be spent on patrolling this use at the expense of attention to wildlife issues.

    Our neighbor brought us a newly fledged American kestrel late Friday afternoon that had been caught up in a hockey net in their yard. Since their barnyard is very active with dogs, cats, goats, horses, and chickens, he thought it prudent to bring to our yard to release and monitor. The bird sat in our lawn for awhile until it feebly flew to a low perch at forests edge, but 3 hours later the bird had not moved and let me walk right up and place my hand under its feet. As it was dark now and a storm expected- I wanted to put it in a place where it could be more protected and under cover (an empty phoebe nest). Come morning the bird was standing on the ground and I felt I had to take it in and was now concerned about it needing to eat. After some research we have spent the past 30 hours harvesting an oddly abundant crop of grasshoppers from our lawn/meadow to feed to the very appreciative bird.

    Since yesterday morning we have spoke to or attempted to connect with 7 different (private/volunteer/donation funded) permitted wildlife rehabbers spanning from Twin Mt. to VINS to Henniker NH trying to get transport for this little guy to some help, with the only option for us to drive nearly 6 hours round trip to Henniker, which is not in the cards for us.

    So here is the point- NHF&G CO's typically run relays between private citizens, other state officials, and rehabbers to coordinate transport- especially since they are often moving between areas anyways. So we left messages with officers who never heard them since they were out of range on ATV trails in Coos (eventually got an apologetic return call after supper yesterday), and no return call from our assigned area CO on a non-emergency call through dispatch. While we were trying to make these contacts we kept saying to ourselves..."...I'm sure they are just tied up with ATV patrols (was in the end the case).

    It's just a shame that this is our state wildlife agency and the officers can't give priority to wildlife issues, and ATV's suck up so much time that would be better handled fully by another agency geared toward this whatever it is that relates to "Conservation".

    As an aside I remember one very late night at Monadnock when we were already exhausted from searching many hours for a lost hiker and were regrouping and planning the next move over topo maps. The sergeant looked at me and asked "where should we look next." I looked at him and said "You tell me, you're supposed to be in charge of this stuff." He gave me a defeated look and said "Andrew, I graduated college with a wildlife management degree....and here I am doing my best with this stuff." (paraphrased).

    Meanwhile calls and connections were made between the rehabbers network (bless them!), and a plan has come together for us to meet someone in Twin today and relay the bird to Henniker along with another new patient.

    So I wish they were not even dependent on this ATV money so we could get them back to their real jobs, but I know state agencies often have to follow the funding.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Thank you Andrew for the second hand story from the ranger.

    In years past AMC Croo have been a big aid in looking for lost hikers and assisting rescue work. As we know, not everyone needing a rescue is an AMC member, is only in the woods because there is an AMC shelter or lodge nearby and when the Croo is asked to help, they don't ask if the lost person in a club member & refuse to go help non-members. Sometimes accidents happen to prepared people. If novices and overplanners only went in the woods to hike when the huts were open, the trailheads would be very empty these days and we know they are not.

    Numbers that I would like to see and are unlikey to see as at best you could only model them:

    Number of hikers annually? (How would you get it, count cars, Hike Safe Cards, AMC Members, FB group Data mining (This is probably doable but they won't tell you they can)

    What's a hiker? if you go as far as Diana's Bath or, Crystal Cascade are you a hiker? Are only peakbaggers hikers? Hikers are buying meals, staying in lodging, when open, from Monadnock to the Lakes Region, to the Percy Peaks. ATV traffic legally is concentrated in the Berlin Area.

    What percentage of hikers require rescue, first aid or policing because they are trespassing? (Are people still going up the Mt. Cabot trail?)

    Do fines on Illegal ATV use cover the cost? Maybe to the state but does the property owner who's land abuts ATV terrain, do they get anything to fix mudholes in their property? If a hiker does trespass, while wrong, if they don't liter, don't create a trail or mark anything, what damage have they caused? (It's still trespassing) I've seen ATV & motorcycle tracks in places in CT where they are not allowed but neighboring property owners use them in our State Parks and forest on Non-motorized trails. it only takes one bad ATV or bike rider to give his group a bad name in other outdoor communities.

    What percent of ATV riders require rescue, are injured requiring medical treatment, rescued or require policing to assure that riders ride responsibly? If I am a neighboring property owner, what makes more noise, ATVs or hikers? There may be a small group of hikers hiking intoxicated, it's more of a camping issue at places like Tripoli Rd., are they as dangerous as the few (I love picking on a friend who sleds with his wife & are like the vast majority of ATV and sledders, responsible) snowmobilers and ATV riders riding intoxicated.

    North Woods Law episodes seemed about equal (likely for TV interest) in hiker rescues, ATV violations, youthful or no helmets & trespassing, animal or bird rescues and poaching. I had forgotten the name of the show so in looking it up, I came across this story too.

    https://www.unionleader.com/news/cou...8c93ec22d.html

    Before I had children, I used to look at the Globe, Union Leader, Glen Falls & the Monitor (when they were all free without membership too) every Monday to see who got hurt. Once the snow started to fly, it varied from year to year. Some years sledders had the most fatalities, sometimes it was downhill skiers who lead the season and some years hikers & climbers.

    I'm sure I've spent far more money in NH than I've cost the state. but none in Durham or on Fireworks either,
    Last edited by Mike P.; 07-13-2020 at 01:44 PM.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  8. #23
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    A few comments on Mikes Post.

    ATVS are statewide and there are legal trails in southern NH. Lots of railroad and trolley tracks ripe for rail trail use. Sadly lots of ATVs on private and public land illegally.

    Berlin is actually just on the SW fringe of Ride the Wilds. The center of the trail network is probably Nash Stream. Berlin has Jericho Lake State Park which is the most dense part of the system but many out of staters do not realize how big northern NH is until they have had to drive to Pittsburg from Gorham. Plan on an hour plus. There are at best two F&G officers assigned to the region.

    Its a lot easier for a TV crew to drive to an ATV accident compared to a hiker rescue up on mountain. Someone has to lug a camera and equipment up the mountain while they can drive near to most ATV accidents.

    NH F&G has publicly stated to the legislature several times that they do not have the staffing or budget to do what is needed to manage Ride the Wilds. The only help they get is volunteer and in theory Berlin, Gorham and Lancaster have paid police resources. All the other towns are constables and state police coverage. At least in Gorham, ATV enforcement is way down in priorities, its a tourist town and the police know that many businesses rely on the bucks. Warning and blue light flashes seem to be about the extent of their policing unless its special event.

    Since you brought it up, No need to enforce hikers accessing the former Mt Cabot trail as they are not breaking any laws.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    North Woods law did do a couple of rescues, One was on Garfield I believe, I forgot where the other was, may have been Lakes Region. When I saw the episode, I forgot about the event and had to look it up. It was several months previously. Another issue with rescues is that are usually well covered so they can date a TV show that you are hoping people will believe is in near real time. Illegal fishing, riding, animal rescues, either happen often or are less covered.

    Bring brought cameras up Everest to look for Irvine & Mallory & IMAX so the Whites would be doable. For rescue footage in a 3-5 minute clip, you probably only need a minute tops of a litter carry. That you can get well within 1/4 mile of the trailhead. (The SAR folks may want you to put the camera down and help carry....)
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  10. #25
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    I believe they are less-covered... the particpants have to opt in to the show, so you aren't going to get anything outrageous. For the short stint I watched it, there were a handful of wildlife rescues, or nuissance animal relocations (or shooing at least).

    Tim
    Bike, Hike, Ski, Sleep. Eat, Fish, Repeat.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikehikeskifish View Post
    I believe they are less-covered... the particpants have to opt in to the show, so you aren't going to get anything outrageous. For the short stint I watched it, there were a handful of wildlife rescues, or nuissance animal relocations (or shooing at least).

    Tim
    I meant more covered when they actually happen in the media. The newspapers cover them, locals who get the paper comment about them, we cover it, I suspect when a rescue happens it is covered in the FB Groups also. Therefore if they are on North Woods Law, someone may recognize the shows are somewhat dated.

    IMO, Reality TV works better if you are thinking it's close to live time, watching people buy real estate several years ago isn't a exciting if you think you might be able to get a deal like that too.

    I think I saw the same episode twice, people fishing without a license, kids riding ATV's on private commercial property - had to have parents pick them up, and a hawk rescued.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  12. #27
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    I will be curious how they cover the F&G officer in a ATV that was hit by another ATV while running a speed trap on an ATV trail. Reportedly there was film crew filming it for the show.

    NHFG has to approve every episode before airing and can require edits. Its big PR campaign for them so you are not going to see a state employee cast in a bad light. The crews follow the officers for quite awhile and shoot lots of video, it then take awhile to edit so plan on around several month to year lag. No doubt they are not going to show an officer complaining about a lack of resources on air.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    A friends son is going to college this year in hopes of becoming a ranger. He's loved the outdoors for years and is an Eagle Scout. He's watched the Northwoods shows for a few years since they started. I'm sure it didn't hurt his choice.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikehikeskifish View Post
    I believe they are less-covered... the particpants have to opt in to the show, so you aren't going to get anything outrageous. For the short stint I watched it, there were a handful of wildlife rescues, or nuissance animal relocations (or shooing at least).

    Tim
    I signed the release on 2 occasions but was filmed 3 times. It was the less exciting content that I knew would not make it to production. Twice with Matt Holmes who was the officer who got injured by ATV, Matt is a classic and salt of the earth decent guy. It was exciting footage of him coming to me to ask if I had a trailer he could borrow to recover a dead moose, us driving to Jericho Mt State Park and me helping him to hook the trailer to his truck. Next was the great stocking question where Matt stopped in with a hatchery truck asking about getting in through gates at Moose Brook to unload. Lastly was running into CO Eric Fluette at LL Cote's and discussing how the spring park openings were going while being filmed. I laid on as much drama in all 3 cases but did not make the cut!

  15. #30
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    I will be curious how they cover the F&G officer in a ATV that was hit by another ATV while running a speed trap on an ATV trail. Reportedly there was film crew filming it for the show.

    NHFG has to approve every episode before airing and can require edits. Its big PR campaign for them so you are not going to see a state employee cast in a bad light. The crews follow the officers for quite awhile and shoot lots of video, it then take awhile to edit so plan on around several month to year lag. No doubt they are not going to show an officer complaining about a lack of resources on air.
    I don’t think you’ll find them complaining off air either. The Multiple officers I’ve spoken with about funding always respond with integrity and a positive attitude. Many times acknowledging that funding can be a challenge but they say they make it work to the best of their abilities. They all like their jobs and will come out and say unsolicited that it is a privilege to have the job.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

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