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Thread: Cog claims you need to pay to cross the tracks

  1. #31
    Senior Member jniehof's Avatar
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    The title is probably too conclusion-oriented, though. If a mod is willing to change it to "Cog requires permit for 'all users' of property" that would be appreciated. I couldn't think of appropriate phrasing.

  2. #32
    Moderator bikehikeskifish's Avatar
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    This has a familiar odor. Reminds me of the Little River Road access. I am trying to get a definitive answer for the readers, but haven't yet had a chance to go ask myself

    Tim
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  3. #33
    Senior Member richard's Avatar
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    As long as I’m not interfering with,or causing harm to someone else,I’m not paying to walk on Gods land so someone else can line their pockets just because they so call “OWN” the land. Bullshit.

  4. #34
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexmtn View Post
    Wow, what an amazing amount of angst and speculation! Whomever of us is first to Marshfield Station when it's open simply needs to ask the necessary clarifying questions of the supervisor there. My assumptions are (1) that no, if you park in the FS lot and use those trailheads, you're fine and won't have exposure to the $10 permit requirement; and (2), of *course* they're not going to charge for on-mountain Cog crossings.

    I don't plan to get at all worked up about this unless/until the clarifying questions have been posed and then answered in conflict with the above assumptions.

    Alex
    That was my thought as well. They obviously want to control access, limit liability, etc, etc in the base area they maintain as well as the open slopes along the tracks at lower elevation that many people ski in, butt slide, etc. They plow those lots, maintain bathrooms and facilities, dump trash, etc so they should have every right to charge for that access. Never had a problem with that, although I prefer to park down the road and avoid the fee.

    On the rail crossings high up on the trails on Washington, I seriously doubt they are trying to impose a $10 charge for a 30 second crossing of the tracks. How would they even handle that? An iron ranger at each crossing with an envelope for your $10 on the honor system? An actual attendant? That I'm sure would be met with considerable outrage and would be widely ignored. As others have mentioned that would probably involve some sort of legal activity to sort out. But I doubt that is part of their intention. It really seems like the lower "park" where they conduct a variety of activities is really the focus of the fee.
    NH 48 4k: 48/48; NH W48k: 46/48; NY 46: 6/46

  5. #35
    Senior Member dug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richard View Post
    As long as I’m not interfering with,or causing harm to someone else,I’m not paying to walk on Gods land so someone else can line their pockets just because they so call “OWN” the land. Bullshit.
    I believe that's called trespassing in many areas.

  6. #36
    Senior Member richard's Avatar
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    I’ll use another way to the destination. If there is none,I’ll go somewhere else. I consider myself to be pretty conservative, but not when it comes to Greed. ( capitalism ).
    Last edited by richard; 12-05-2018 at 07:55 AM.

  7. #37
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    The owner at some point was interviewed and he said the hotel was being delayed. He was hoping that it would be built for an upcoming anniversary but decided there are other priorities.

  8. #38
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    That was my thought as well. They obviously want to control access, limit liability, etc, etc in the base area they maintain as well as the open slopes along the tracks at lower elevation that many people ski in, butt slide, etc. They plow those lots, maintain bathrooms and facilities, dump trash, etc so they should have every right to charge for that access. Never had a problem with that, although I prefer to park down the road and avoid the fee.

    On the rail crossings high up on the trails on Washington, I seriously doubt they are trying to impose a $10 charge for a 30 second crossing of the tracks. How would they even handle that? An iron ranger at each crossing with an envelope for your $10 on the honor system? An actual attendant? That I'm sure would be met with considerable outrage and would be widely ignored. As others have mentioned that would probably involve some sort of legal activity to sort out. But I doubt that is part of their intention. It really seems like the lower "park" where they conduct a variety of activities is really the focus of the fee.
    This is an excellent summary of the situation without implying any half baked theoretical scenarios. The use of this corridor for outdoor recreation has been used in Winter by many for a long time. The corridor is privately owned land and the owner IMO is well within his rights to do what he wants with it including charging for services provided. The Summit is obviously not so well defined at this point and I agree that it should be. I see the two areas as separate issues. As far as crossing over the tracks and being charged that is never going to happen. Again what is the big issue of providing services like plowing, an open building with heat, food and drink and access to private land a big deal when someone wants to charge a few bucks. Not to mention it is highly unlikely your windshield is going to get smashed and your belongings stolen. Which is more that can be said about other winter trailheads. Not everyone is a hard core Winter Mountaineer. Providing an alternative winter experience is a positive thing for the local economy and gets people outdoors. The White Mountains is a Land of Many uses. The folks at "Keep The Whites Wild" have their agenda. Much as the Cog Railway does. Personally I find their underlying premises farcical. This latest move of claiming a "change of use" is only just another example. The founder of the group is a former Forest Service employee and certainly exemplifies the groups conservation efforts. Although the rest of the group is comprised of former AMC employees and mountain guides. Where in lies the farce IMO. These folks have made a profit in the past, present and most likely going forward on use of the White Mountain National Forest. Including accessing the Presidential Range via the Cog Railway. Now when someone else wants to make a buck for services provided on private land it's not OK. Simply a dichotomous line of rational. It is unfortunate that the parties involved including the Cog Railway cannot find a way to cooperate rather than using passive aggressive strategies. They would all stand to gain in the long run. Let's all play nice out there.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  9. #39
    Senior Member Rainman's Avatar
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    Posted on New England Trail Conditions today:
    https://www.newenglandtrailcondition...?entryid=39097

    "$10 PER PERSON fee to park"

    "Passes provided and required to be with you on your hike"

    posted by Tara, for a hike on 30-Dec-18
    WM 48 / NE 67 / NE 100 / W48 / |62.4%
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman View Post
    Posted on New England Trail Conditions today:
    https://www.newenglandtrailcondition...?entryid=39097

    "$10 PER PERSON fee to park"

    "Passes provided and required to be with you on your hike"

    posted by Tara, for a hike on 30-Dec-18
    Sounds like they've taken the Wildcat/USFS uphill policy.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    It was $5.00 several years ago and if I am staying in C-Notch or West and South of there of coming up from 93, that was money was spent as opposed to driving time and gas used to drive around to PNVC. The FS lot used to be closed in winter. The Ammo & Jewel access is quite a bit shorter from Base Station.


    Is the FS Ammo lot now open year round? (Actually I will be up there next week and will take a look myself, not hiking Washington or Monroe)

    Plowing cost seems to be the cost they are looking at recovering. Where the DOT and the Cog decide where to plow is probably more of a case of convenience as you can turn around at the four corners more easily. State DOT likely has to plow as far as the streets that now have homes on them being the Hotel. I doubt the Cog wants to get the DOT worked up as they, as previously mentioned, are covering most of the cost of plowing the road.

    I've been up in winter with non-hikers and walking around Base Station and buying souvenirs always is fun.

    I've asked hikers who ski before on their thoughts on the ski train and the idea is not well received. It has one wide trail that is not groomed and the train right of way is not even. (You have trestles so the train ride is smooth.) You would run the train, what, every half hour? It's not like getting to the bottom of a run and getting on a chair or in a gondola, well it's like a gondola for 30 or 40, (per car) it won't make a special trip just for you if you beat others down the run or if you are late.

    Are the tracks a hand rail to the top? I guess however, if the weather and visibility is bad, that weather likely is coming from some direction between N and W. It likely will involve descending into the teeth of the weather.

    Personally, I like the western approaches as they start about 500 feet higher than PNVC and are closer to where I usually start that day from. They don't capture a lot of wind-blown snow so typically they have less avalanche danger.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    Is the FS Ammo lot now open year round?
    Yes, I believe starting last year. It was plowed after the November and December storms this "fall."

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    I've asked hikers who ski before on their thoughts on the ski train and the idea is not well received. It has one wide trail that is not groomed and the train right of way is not even.
    The section they provided train service to in the past was groomed and even had snowmaking.
    https://www.newenglandskihistory.com...cograilway.php
    Last edited by rocket21; 12-31-2018 at 05:47 PM.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocket21 View Post
    Yes, I believe starting last year. It was plowed after the November and December storms this "fall."


    The section they provided train service to in the past was groomed and even had snowmaking.
    https://www.newenglandskihistory.com...cograilway.php
    Thanks for the link and info, groomed would be helpful. It would bbe a nice diversion for half a day from a multi-day trip to Bretton Woods as it was the two years they operated. Would be curious on why the FS and AMC was opposed to them running skiers up the other side for skiing Tucks, it would relieve the parking at PNVC. (You would encourage people to ski over the lip who probably shouldn't, and other safe skiing reasons why it's a bad idea, but curious if they were mention. what happens if weather gets bad, you encourage people to hike up to catch train back to the car... okay, it was a dumb idea)

    It's still a limited area. For those who have a home mountain or home company they buy passes for, how many times to you go to (insert resort name here) each year? Could you see yourself going down the cleared R.O.W. on multiple days.
    Last edited by Mike P.; 01-01-2019 at 11:14 AM. Reason: content
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

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