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Thread: Spring Equinox and Winter Summits

  1. #1
    Junior Member strider's Avatar
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    Question Spring Equinox and Winter Summits

    With the Spring Equinox falling late in the day this year (5:58pm EDST), I was wondering about the "rules" for counting a winter summit. Is it enough to reach the summit before the equinox? Or do you have to return to the trailhead before the magic minute? Per the FAQ section on the AMC website:

    "Trips must begin after the hour and minute of the beginning of winter (winter solstice), and end before the hour and minute of the end of winter (spring equinox)."

    That seems pretty clear...or does it? What defines when the trip ends? When the summit is reached? When I return to the TH? When I return to my car? Or when I return to my home in CT (i.e. does that count as part of the "trip")? Interested to hear the group's opinion on this.

    BTW - I'm not a lawyer, but I frequently play one at work!
    "Viewed from the summit of reason, all life looks like a malignant disease and the world like a madhouse. "
    -JVG

  2. #2
    Moderator bikehikeskifish's Avatar
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    You must return to your starting point before the hour and minute.

    Tim
    Bike, Hike, Ski, Sleep. Eat, Fish, Repeat.

  3. #3
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    For the sake of splitting hairs I don't care about, it's trail head to trail head. Not all hikes are loops or out-and-backs.

  4. #4
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    Dayhiking is simple the hike is not over until back to the trailhead. This was discussed when a hiker passed away on his last 100 highest summit attempt and the question was did the hike count. (I think there was other discussion that no one knew if he had reached the summit and was heading back or passed away prior to reaching the summit. I think that was not always the case as I remember heading out early on a few equinox hikes to summit before it went to spring.

    Not so simple on a multiday trek that happens to straddle the date.

  5. #5
    Moderator bikehikeskifish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshandBaron View Post
    For the sake of splitting hairs I don't care about, it's trail head to trail head. Not all hikes are loops or out-and-backs.
    More correct, but for even finer splitting hairs, you need to be on the public road Ie, Carters via Imp / 19MBT (A loop) you can walk the road in spring as long as you hit the public and open to travel road prior to the arrival of the next season.

    Tim
    Bike, Hike, Ski, Sleep. Eat, Fish, Repeat.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    One year I opted out of Eisenhower and just did Pierce. I got back early enough to go add Willard to winter. (For my personal list) I'd say if you went up C-Path and down Edmands, and you had gotten to the parking lot you would have made it. Not sure on a backpacking trip. If I do Madison and Adams and spend the night at an RMC Cabin, then do Jefferson after the equinox, do the first two count for winter?
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  7. #7
    Senior Member alexmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    I'd say if you went up C-Path and down Edmands, and you had gotten to the [Edmands] parking lot you would have made it.
    Nope (that is, unless by some fluke the Edmands lot was publicly accessible by car.) By the AMC list rules (e.g., W48, WNE100), the completion time for a peak is the time at which you reach a point that is publicly accessible by car (doesn't need to be your trailhead).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    Not sure on a backpacking trip. If I do Madison and Adams and spend the night at an RMC Cabin, then do Jefferson after the equinox, do the first two count for winter?
    No. On any sort of all-backcountry loop/traverse, the completion time for those peaks is the time at which you make it to a point that's publicly accessible by car.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Thanks Alex, Usually Edmunds would not be reachable these days. When Base Road was not plowed and the Cog used the Mt. Clinton Road, it could have been reachable if they plowed it. (dating myself)
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Barkingcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexmtn View Post
    Nope (that is, unless by some fluke the Edmands lot was publicly accessible by car.) By the AMC list rules (e.g., W48, WNE100), the completion time for a peak is the time at which you reach a point that is publicly accessible by car (doesn't need to be your trailhead).
    BUT -- if one went up the Crawford-Connector and Crawford Path, and then down the Edmands Path, and road-walked Mt. Clinton Road back to the Crawford Connector and the initial starting point, that would be fine, correct?

    (I've often used Edmands Path in the winter for just this sort of loop.)

  10. #10
    Senior Member Tom Rankin's Avatar
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    Yesterday, we did Table and Peekamoose, and then Table again. Someone finished their regular Catskill 35 list on Peekamoose. Another person asked if the 2nd summiting of Table then counted for the first person's Winter list. I explained that you can not count a peak twice on a single hike for any given list, but any summiting of a peak in Winter counts as an all-season hike as well, so the first summiting counted for both. Confused yet? ;-)
    Tom Rankin
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  11. #11
    Senior Member dug's Avatar
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    I took a different route. If I climbed a peak in "winter" conditions, I checked it off my internal list. I experienced that peak in "winter" conditions, which was my goal. Sometimes, that occurred in November or March. I let the weather dictate my hikes, not the calendar.

  12. #12
    Senior Member jrbren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dug View Post
    I took a different route. If I climbed a peak in "winter" conditions, I checked it off my internal list. I experienced that peak in "winter" conditions, which was my goal. Sometimes, that occurred in November or March. I let the weather dictate my hikes, not the calendar.
    I accept this as my official end of winter ...

    https://www.joespondvermont.com/iceout.php

  13. #13
    Senior Member cushetunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dug View Post
    I took a different route. If I climbed a peak in "winter" conditions, I checked it off my internal list. I experienced that peak in "winter" conditions, which was my goal. Sometimes, that occurred in November or March. I let the weather dictate my hikes, not the calendar.
    That’s mostly my approach too, but there’s no denying it’s a “namby pamby” way to go about it!

  14. #14
    Senior Member alexmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barkingcat View Post
    BUT -- if one went up the Crawford-Connector and Crawford Path, and then down the Edmands Path, and road-walked Mt. Clinton Road back to the Crawford Connector and the initial starting point, that would be fine, correct?
    Yes, you'd be starting at a point that's publicly accessible by car, and ending at one.

  15. #15
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cushetunk View Post
    That’s mostly my approach too, but there’s no denying it’s a “namby pamby” way to go about it!
    Who you calling "namby pamby". This past November had some full on "Winter Conditions" and not to mention the end of March into early April with this years snowpack will be epic.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

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