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Thread: Spring Equinox and Winter Summits

  1. #31
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Guess it’s time to sharpen up your pencils.http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2018...verest-climbs/
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  2. #32
    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    First off, I'm not a peak bagger. I did the 4k list , then went on to do whatever I wanted to do. Although, I'm casually working on the CO 14ers. I use calendar winter because its a fair benchmark for everyone. If you start counting ascents based on conditions, then everyone is free to define winter their own way. One mans epic winter climb is another mans walk up a snow covered hill. I'll give an example based on my definition of winter. As someone posted about us living in little mountains. It is not always winter in the high peaks. The difference between winter and non winter in the Himalayan peaks is night and day. Everest has been climbed roughly 4000 times, winter ascents around 15. In my post, I merely stated my opinion, no need to get so defensive. This board could defiantly "lighten up a bit". Daytrip I got your point, I just don't agree with it. That being said, you can define your climbs anyway you want, really doesn't matter to me.

  3. #33
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    I merely stated my opinion, no need to get so defensive. This board could defiantly "lighten up a bit". Daytrip I got your point, I just don't agree with it. That being said, you can define your climbs anyway you want, really doesn't matter to me.
    I'm certainly not trying to sound defensive but I'm not quite sure what you "disgaree" with. If you ask me WHEN I did a climb, I'll tell you the date and time I did it. If you ask me WHAT THE CLIMB WAS LIKE I will provide a description of what the conditions were like, a subjective answer to a subjective question. If you were researching beta for a climb you had never done out in CO would you want someone's answer to be "It was February 14th" for an answer? Unless it is for qualification to a list or patch that seems like a useless answer. I don't prepare my gear, layers, route, etc based on a date. I do it based on the expected conditions.

    It's all kind of a circular question anyway micro-analyzed to the extreme VFTT style. Most "Winter Condition" hikes are going to fall in calendar "Winter" anyway. And no doubt after someone asks you when they did a peak they will ask the follow up question about what the conditions were like. So all the info will be out there to be righteously judged however you see fit.
    NH 48 4k: 48/48; NH W48k: 46/48; NY 46: 6/46

  4. #34
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    In the spirit of lightning up I don’t think anyone here in this thread has alluded or stated that they are counting ascents based on conditions only and not official calendar seasonal dates for list completion purposes. The OP asked a valid question within the paradigm of “AMC RULES”. Which IMO has been answered appropriately. What has ensued is a discussion about conditions nothing more.
    Last edited by skiguy; 03-10-2019 at 02:46 PM.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  5. #35
    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    I'm certainly not trying to sound defensive but I'm not quite sure what you "disgaree" with. If you ask me WHEN I did a climb, I'll tell you the date and time I did it. If you ask me WHAT THE CLIMB WAS LIKE I will provide a description of what the conditions were like, a subjective answer to a subjective question. If you were researching beta for a climb you had never done out in CO would you want someone's answer to be "It was February 14th" for an answer? Unless it is for qualification to a list or patch that seems like a useless answer. I don't prepare my gear, layers, route, etc based on a date. I do it based on the expected conditions.

    It's all kind of a circular question anyway micro-analyzed to the extreme VFTT style. Most "Winter Condition" hikes are going to fall in calendar "Winter" anyway. And no doubt after someone asks you when they did a peak they will ask the follow up question about what the conditions were like. So all the info will be out there to be righteously judged however you see fit.
    When talking in a forum, I think points fail to be made in the strength they would be in person. I think we probably all agree on many of the above points. I simply think that defining winter based on the calendar is standard. Are peaks climbed outside of the "calendar" winter done in "winter" conditions, absolutely. I also strongly agree with another previous comment that climbs in the shoulder seasons can be the toughest of all seasons. Talking online is not my forte, face to face over a beer is more my style.

  6. #36
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    When talking in a forum, I think points fail to be made in the strength they would be in person. I think we probably all agree on many of the above points. I simply think that defining winter based on the calendar is standard. Are peaks climbed outside of the "calendar" winter done in "winter" conditions, absolutely. I also strongly agree with another previous comment that climbs in the shoulder seasons can be the toughest of all seasons. Talking online is not my forte, face to face over a beer is more my style.
    Well we are definitely on the same page now. Speaking face to face is always better. Shoulder seasons are tough. And I do like beer.
    NH 48 4k: 48/48; NH W48k: 46/48; NY 46: 6/46

  7. #37
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    Talking online is not my forte, face to face over a beer is more my style.
    Another vote for “Bowman’s Rt. 2 Craft Brewery”. A place for hikers and climbers to wind down! Leave your ego at the door.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  8. #38
    Senior Member Grey J's Avatar
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    Since all of my hiking trips in NH have occurred between July and September, I guess I can only claim a "Summer 48".
    No, hold on, it looks like I did Carrigain on September 23 so I can't even claim that. Ah well, I know I did them and that's all that matters to me.
    I always enjoy following these discussions.
    "I am a pilgrim and a stranger"

  9. #39
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    Another vote for “Bowman’s Rt. 2 Craft Brewery”. A place for hikers and climbers to wind down! Leave your ego at the door.
    Is that new? I don't recall seeing this place. Is it literally near the Bowman lot or in town? Always love trying a new brewery.
    NH 48 4k: 48/48; NH W48k: 46/48; NY 46: 6/46

  10. #40
    Senior Member dug's Avatar
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    Since I am sure I've done a hike the weekend before Christmas almost every year for the last 25 (as part of my instructions to do what I can to help for the holidays was to GTFO of the way...) I can confidently say some of those were in late fall, some were in winter. It wasn't something I looked too deeply into, other than for the joke "hey after today it starts getting more light out". If it was what I alone considered to be "winter", I put a little * next to my now very old AMC guidebook so I can remember if I experienced that peak in winter weather. I may, and have, gone back to do that particular peak, or not. It sometimes depends on a game-time decision on the ride up, and if I'm with skis or knives for my feet.

    So, if asked the question "Have I done such and such in winter", and it possibly happened on 12/19 but was full-on winter conditions (that I alone grade) then I'd answer yes.

    If I have to answer that at the pearly gates, so be it. My intent is not to check them off a list, but to experience the mountain.

  11. #41
    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrbren View Post
    There are several "official" definitions of winter (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/winter.) It can "officially" can mean simply the cold half the year according to Merriam-Webster. Peak baggers usually adopt the "calendar" definition, solstice to equinox, probably because if you ask 100 climbers their definition of "winter conditions", you will get 100 different answers. That definition is completely inappropriate for the low lands of Massachusetts, let alone mountains of NH. I sure wish spring started on the equinox, I really do. It is not uncommon to have more winter like conditions in April then January. As a side note, I personally find the shoulder seasons to be tougher going then the heart of winter anyway, at least if I am not breaking trail, which I rarely am in the crowded White mountains. But I think wearing patches is more about perception then reality. To answer your question, because no one other then a peak bagger hung up on the calendar definition of winter would ask that question, I would not answer yes or no. I would just give them an approximate date and let them do with that info what they please.
    And meteorological winter Is December 1st thru the end of February.

    Re: The 'Patch' - whomever gives out the patch gets to set the standard. So, AMC says start after the Winter Solstice, finish by Spring Equinox, those are the rules for that patch. Don't like it, make your own!

    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    My simple answer would be "no" because you are asking me a time based question - Did I do it in "Winter"? (Winter being a calendar based reference that has zero bearing on the actual weather experienced on the day, trail conditions, etc ). "Winter" and "Winter conditions" are not the same thing. Thought I was making that clear but apparently not. I don't find this distinction to be very important to me. The actual conditions of the climb are what I am measuring my performance against, not some arbitrary yardstick. Others may find that arbitrary yardstick to be an all important benchmark. As TCD basically stated, all you can do is answer the question truthfully in the context of whatever point of view the person asking frames it.
    I think that for anyone who hikes consistently in the wintry months (Nov-Apr) in the Whites, the they'll eventually do a lot of winter hikes in non-winter conditions, and non-winter hikes in winter conditions. I think that these things even out over time.
    | 63.0% W48: 19/48
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  12. #42
    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    Is that new? I don't recall seeing this place. Is it literally near the Bowman lot or in town? Always love trying a new brewery.
    In a past discussion on the old Bowman's Base Camp, I commented, that I would love to buy that place and serve beer. I also stipulated, that VFTT members would get their first beer free. I believe that is the reference, lol.

  13. #43
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    In a past discussion on the old Bowman's Base Camp, I commented, that I would love to buy that place and serve beer. I also stipulated, that VFTT members would get their first beer free. I believe that is the reference, lol.
    That does sound vaguely familiar now that you mention it. Oh well....
    NH 48 4k: 48/48; NH W48k: 46/48; NY 46: 6/46

  14. #44
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    In a past discussion on the old Bowman's Base Camp, I commented, that I would love to buy that place and serve beer. I also stipulated, that VFTT members would get their first beer free. I believe that is the reference, lol.
    Spot on!
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  15. #45
    Member Salty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    In a past discussion on the old Bowman's Base Camp, I commented, that I would love to buy that place and serve beer. I also stipulated, that VFTT members would get their first beer free. I believe that is the reference, lol.
    VFFTer: "I'd like to order the Alligator Eggs, please?"

    Bartender: "Certainly sir, but you only can have one!"

    Non-VFFTer: "Huhhhh?"

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