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Thread: AMC granted new "Pooper Chopper" Heli Site

  1. #16
    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshandBaron View Post
    Yup. Edmands Col is used pretty frequently. It's also a former shelter site near water like the hut sites would be if taken down. I see nothing stopping people (mostly thrubies) from camping at either Lakes or Madison if removed. I still don't think the huts should be there but there are probably reasons beyond distance that those specific locations were chosen and those reasons make them attractive to backpackers.
    The locations of the Huts is well thought out. They allow one to travel a long distance with a day pack. I accept that the WMNF is multiuse and while I do not care for the huts, I'm not self righteous enough to say they all should go. There should be options for hikers. Galehead, Mizpah, Carter, LL and Zealand are tucked away as to not infringe on views. It's the above treeline Huts, I have an issue with. They can be seen from far distances and what would be a view of pristine tundra is no longer. I know, beating a dead horse.

  2. #17
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Back to the OP. The AMC was granted yet another permit which creates yet another incident of environmental impact upon their part. As already mentioned this is in contrast to their self stated mission which is conservation of the environment. The AMC does serve as a steward in many positive ways but their direction going forward is eroding their underlying cause. The Huts are not going away but they could change their ways to more affectively accomplish their mission and not come off being hypocritical. The article cited in the OP mentions that multiple letters were submitted not supporting issuing the permit. Where were all the letters supporting the permit? When it comes down to it the application of permit is decided by The District Ranger. Maybe it is time for the system to change. Lets remember that decisions have been made before by one person (The District Ranger) that have not been so popular. Wilderness Bridges come to mind. In the bigger picture these District Rangers serve for a short period of time and then move on much of the time to places other than New Hampshire and we are left with their decisions for the long term. The AMC's permit to use the Huts on Federal Land I believe is for 30 years. Seems like a long time but I believe we are looking at close to half of that time already passing. With the time left it would be prudent for The AMC and the Forest Service to more widely explore other options going forward that support a true level on conservationism and more widely support a more homogenous demographic. In return for the use of Federal Land they should be required to down scale their program to reduce their own personal environmental impact. It would only be more analogous to their mission and would also be setting a better example. With technology only getting better and our understanding of the environment getting better it is far overdue for them to literally clean up their act not dirty it up.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  3. #18
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    An eloquent commentary on the hut system. The problem is the helicopter landing spot on the base road has little impact on the continued existence of the huts, all it does is add some difficulty and cost to the LOC effort but given the high demand for the huts if they have to increase the cost to cover it, plenty of folks will pay it. Barring another major political miscalculation by AMC's president that turned the prior "rubber stamp" hut permit into a controversial and costly exercise for AMC, I expect in 15 years they will get another permit.

    AMC has been attempting to upgrade the wastewater disposal systems at Madison and LOC for several years. The project to replace the septic system at LOC got delayed by the FS for years. Note the date on the plans which was 2013. My understanding was AMC was ready to do it then, it was the forest service that dragged their feet. I was surprised to see if finally was permitted in 2017 but do not think it has gone in. https://www.fs.usda.gov/nfs/11558/ww...T3_3954573.pdf Note the National Historical Landmark status which makes it more likely that the huts will remain. Madison and LOC both have switched to composting toilets in the last few years, the problem is at Madison IMO the composter's may have cut down liquid volume but have made the local odor issue worst.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Raven's Avatar
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    "If you build it, they are will come."

    New huts, hotels, parking lots, buildings, and other facilities allow for and encourage overuse of an already overloved area. IMO, no new above treeline construction by anyone and no new parking lots at the base of overcrowded areas. The Alpine zone in the northeast is too fragile environmentally and too important to the region's beauty.

    Let it be.
    Humankind has not woven the web of life.
    We are but one thread within it.
    Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
    All things are bound together.
    All things connect.
    ~ Chief Seattle, 1854 ~

  5. #20
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    An eloquent commentary on the hut system. The problem is the helicopter landing spot on the base road has little impact on the continued existence of the huts, all it does is add some difficulty and cost to the LOC effort but given the high demand for the huts if they have to increase the cost to cover it, plenty of folks will pay it. Barring another major political miscalculation by AMC's president that turned the prior "rubber stamp" hut permit into a controversial and costly exercise for AMC, I expect in 15 years they will get another permit.

    AMC has been attempting to upgrade the wastewater disposal systems at Madison and LOC for several years. The project to replace the septic system at LOC got delayed by the FS for years. Note the date on the plans which was 2013. My understanding was AMC was ready to do it then, it was the forest service that dragged their feet. I was surprised to see if finally was permitted in 2017 but do not think it has gone in. https://www.fs.usda.gov/nfs/11558/ww...T3_3954573.pdf Note the National Historical Landmark status which makes it more likely that the huts will remain. Madison and LOC both have switched to composting toilets in the last few years, the problem is at Madison IMO the composter's may have cut down liquid volume but have made the local odor issue worst.
    The impact is not on the operation of LOC but on the environment. They are as already stated getting a variance to operate on Federal Land that is protected to stop such activity. The rational by the District Ranger was that such activity was analogous to their already existing permit to operate the Hut System. I do agree the huts are not going anywhere and their permit will most likely get renewed. There will also be a public comment period before that happens. As I already stated there is room for them to tune down their operation on an environmental level.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  6. #21
    Senior Member B the Hiker's Avatar
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    The AMC should be in a mode of decreasing their carbon footprint rather than perpetually increasing it. Which is a mantra they preach but do not practice. Let's not forget that their has been more than one instance of spillage.[/QUOTE]

    Being cognizant that I am writing to a man (or woman) with a fake photo and a fake name, I will still engage this endlessly-cranky individual in a serious manner. The AMC is most certainly not "perpetually increasing" their carbon footprint.

    https://www.outdoors.org/lodging-camping/green-promise

    The page is short enough that I will just click-and-drag:

    # # #

    AMC’s Green promise
    Our Commitment

    The AMC has a long-standing commitment to using its huts, lodges and sporting camps as models for sustainable operations and environmental stewardship. These policies are designed to both reduce our environmental impact and provide an opportunity for guests to learn how to practice conservation at home. In some cases we are upgrading our destinations to make them more energy-efficient. In the case of the Highland Center, we built a lodge and education center from the ground up to utilize the latest in green design and technology.

    All New Hampshire huts and lodges have been awarded “Environmental Champion” status by the New Hampshire Lodging and Restaurant Association’s Sustainable Lodging and Restaurant Program.

    AMC is committed to continuing to find new ways to reduce energy use, with a goal of reducing its total carbon footprint by 80% by 2050.
    Energy Efficiency

    LED or CF lighting (all locations)

    Double to triple glazed windows (all locations)

    Highly insulated building shell (HiC, GC)*

    Recycled building materials (HiC)*

    Alternative energy sources

    Ultra-low emission biomass heating and hot water using locally harvested wood (HiC, GC)*

    o Solar water preheat (4 huts, JDL, Cardigan)

    Solar power generation (all huts, GC, LL, Cardigan)

    Wind power generation (5 huts)

    Small-scale hydropower (Zealand Falls Hut)

    * The Highland Center and the lodge building at Gorman Chairback were built as green buildings from the ground up. Gorman Chairback uses a LEED-registered design. AMC has retrofitted older facilities to improve energy efficiency.

    Transportation

    AMC operates hiker shuttle between Lincoln, Gorham, HiC, JDL, major trailheads)

    EV charging stations (HiC, JDL)

    Chapter activity registration system includes carpooling features

    Waste Reduction / Water

    Recycling (all locations)

    “No napkin” policy (all huts)

    Bulk liquid soap and shampoo in bathrooms (all frontcountry lodges, GC, LL)

    Biodegradable cleaning products (all locations)

    Majority of driveways/walkways are unpaved to reduce runoff

    Food composting (HiC, JDL, Cardigan, all huts)

    Composting toilets (Clivus Multrum) or waterless system (all huts, GC, LL, Highland Center staff space, Highland Center Thayer Hall public restrooms; Crawford Depot Macomber Family Information Center public restrooms; JDL public restrooms)

    Local Sourcing

    Local food purchases (AMC huts use ingredients from local providers, including King Arthur Flour [VT], Sawyer’s Maple Farm [ME], Cabot Creamery [VT], Native Maine Produce [ME], New Hampshire Coffee Roasting [NH], Grandy Oats [ME], Stonyfield Farms [NH], Wyman’s of Maine [ME])

    On-site vegetable gardens (GC, LL)

    Locally manufactured furniture (HiC, Cardigan, GC)

    Minimizing Backcountry Impact

    Along with the energy conservation and waste reduction strategies noted above, we manage trails to our huts to minimize erosion and help protect vegetation. We monitor air quality at the summit and base of Mt. Washington, and have worked to protect and restore rare alpine flowers, including a successful restoration effort for the Robbins cinquefoil, resulting in its removal from the federal Endangered Species list.
    Recognition

    TripAdvisor Green Leader, Gold Level (HiC, JDL)

    Maine Environmental Leader Award (LL)

    New Hampshire Sustainable Lodging and Restaurant Program Environmental Champion Certification

    (All eight huts, HiC, JDL, Cardigan)

  7. #22
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Whoops.. something went wrong there. Moderators please delete my last post as I cannot do so. Must have something to do with my endless crankiness. B the Hiker needs to edit his post also so he is properly quoting this fake person with the fake name. LOL.
    Last edited by skiguy; 04-28-2019 at 01:01 PM.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  8. #23
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Hey Skiguy, are you really that well-known curmudgeon..... BILL AUGHTON???!!!
    OMG.
    cb
    Nobody told me there'd be days like these
    Strange days indeed -- most peculiar, mama
    .

  9. #24
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    Hey Skiguy, are you really that well-known curmudgeon..... BILL AUGHTON???!!!
    OMG.
    cb
    LOL...Not Bill...I’m more perpetually cranky than him anyhow.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  10. #25
    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Just to bring this back to a mature, productive discussion... why don't we call this thing the "Heli-crapper"?
    | 63.0% W48: 19/48
    Trail Adopter of the Guinea Pond Trail (Pemi District)

  11. #26
    Moderator David Metsky's Avatar
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    Mod Hat on
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    Also, a reminder to avoid copying large portions of material from other websites. Just a short representative sample with a link will suffice in most cases, and that's what we recommend in the VFTT Terms of Service.

    Mod Hat off
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