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Thread: “The Cog” comes to the rescue June 22, 2019

  1. #16
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCaper View Post
    I can tell you first hand they take things very serious there... I'm glad one hiker praised them. The wife said no hikers would. She's party right.
    I don't quite get the Cog hiker-animosity thing. The railway is an historical treasure for New England and truly unique in many ways.

    They're off coal and on diesel (by popular demand). They facilitated the electrification of the summit and as a result no more roaring diesel generators in the portico. And their access road "trail" has been quite popular with some commercial guides as a winter route to the summit.

    In addition their footprint on the mountain and at the summit is a lot smaller than the Autoroad's swath of pavement and expansive parking lots. And in one trip they can deliver more people to the top using a lot less energy than equivalent automobiles would consume.

    So what's not to like?

    Please explain...
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  2. #17
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    I don't quite get the Cog hiker-animosity thing. The railway is an historical treasure for New England and truly unique in many ways.

    They're off coal and on diesel (by popular demand). They facilitated the electrification of the summit and as a result no more roaring diesel generators in the portico. And their access road "trail" has been quite popular with some commercial guides as a winter route to the summit.

    In addition their footprint on the mountain and at the summit is a lot smaller than the Autoroad's swath of pavement and expansive parking lots. And in one trip they can deliver more people to the top using a lot less energy than equivalent automobiles would consume.

    So what's not to like?

    Please explain...
    I’ll probably come off sounding like a “Curmudgeon” but a lot of the dislike IMO is rooted in tradition. This Wikipedia link explains some of that. It goes back more than 20-30 years. I remember myself and my peeps had disdain going back to the 60’s. As I’ve grown older like a lot of things in life I’ve been able to see the bigger picture and no longer drop shorts in that area. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mooning_the_Cog
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  3. #18
    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    I don't quite get the Cog hiker-animosity thing. The railway is an historical treasure for New England and truly unique in many ways.

    They're off coal and on diesel (by popular demand). They facilitated the electrification of the summit and as a result no more roaring diesel generators in the portico. And their access road "trail" has been quite popular with some commercial guides as a winter route to the summit.

    In addition their footprint on the mountain and at the summit is a lot smaller than the Autoroad's swath of pavement and expansive parking lots. And in one trip they can deliver more people to the top using a lot less energy than equivalent automobiles would consume.

    So what's not to like?

    Please explain...
    First off, I love the Cog, always have. It's an engineering marvel and has been popular since it opened. I took it a few times to get my Mom up high and see where I hike. She loved it. Back to your question. A lot of hikers are snobs, some of the worst are the ones you would least expect it from, the gridder's and long time hikers. Somehow because they were dumb enough to climb Owls head 40 times, they think they are special. I've heard it all, tear it down, those people don't deserve to be up there they didn't earn it. Like walking up a hill is some special thing that elevates you to God like status. I've hiked as much as most of them and more then some, when I run into a grid party, they look at me like I'm dirt. Had one group actually ask me to not stand on the summit because they were arranging a photograph and it was a historic day. No, the Civil War was historic, not your hike up Pierce. Worse of all is the mooning of the Cog. Ok, lets stop and moon children, woman, old folks, whoever is on the train why? Because they are self serving egomaniacs that think they are above it all. The Cog will probably outlive them all. P.S. I hope he gets his hotel, that would be just perfect.

  4. #19
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    First off, I love the Cog, always have. It's an engineering marvel and has been popular since it opened. I took it a few times to get my Mom up high and see where I hike. She loved it. Back to your question. A lot of hikers are snobs, some of the worst are the ones you would least expect it from, the gridder's and long time hikers. Somehow because they were dumb enough to climb Owls head 40 times, they think they are special. I've heard it all, tear it down, those people don't deserve to be up there they didn't earn it. Like walking up a hill is some special thing that elevates you to God like status. I've hiked as much as most of them and more then some, when I run into a grid party, they look at me like I'm dirt. Had one group actually ask me to not stand on the summit because they were arranging a photograph and it was a historic day. No, the Civil War was historic, not your hike up Pierce. Worse of all is the mooning of the Cog. Ok, lets stop and moon children, woman, old folks, whoever is on the train why? Because they are self serving egomaniacs that think they are above it all. The Cog will probably outlive them all. P.S. I hope he gets his hotel, that would be just perfect.
    A few years ago I was starting up the Monroe Loop from the South and five trail runners were coming down to Crawford Path and even from a distance I could hear them all going on and on about how they were crushing it and well ahead of schedule, blah, blah, blah. My current hiking hat is an Under Armour camoflauge hat and when they reached me and looked at my big pack and gut the "leader" gave me a condescending look and asked if I wore that hat because I could be invisible. I told him that I wished it were that simple.
    NH 48 4k: 48/48; NH W48k: 46/48; NY 46: 6/46

  5. #20
    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    A few years ago I was starting up the Monroe Loop from the South and five trail runners were coming down to Crawford Path and even from a distance I could hear them all going on and on about how they were crushing it and well ahead of schedule, blah, blah, blah. My current hiking hat is an Under Armour camoflauge hat and when they reached me and looked at my big pack and gut the "leader" gave me a condescending look and asked if I wore that hat because I could be invisible. I told him that I wished it were that simple.
    Careful, it's easy to become accidentally ironic here. Like complaining about complainers, or screaming "no yelling" at your kids. Just because some people value stupid things doesn't mean they are stupid themselves. They might be, but that requires a longer conversation, or at least two posts.
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  6. #21
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    I have never had an issue with the cog or the autoroad's existence. They were both in place long before the WMNF existed. Arguing against them is the equivalent of arguing that RT 302, RT 16, the Kanc, RT 113 in Maine and the parkway should be removed as they impact the wilderness experience of the whites. They both allow a portion of the population who are not interested or able to hike to the summit to head up and I know of a few folks who decided to start hiking due to distant memories of visiting there in their youth. If I want to be Cog/road free I have plenty of other summits to visit.

    The auto road capacity is effectively limited by the parking at the summit although they could substantially reduce their impact and increase passenger volume by shifting to van transport with compressed natural gas to up passenger volume and reduce emissions. This is being done successfully in several national parks. The cog capacity was effectively limited by the speed of the coal fired cogs and their costs to operate per passenger was probably higher with coal than diesel although I expect the capital costs made a dent in savings for a few years. They made a technological leap and a good business decision to shift to the diesel blend trains as it got them a potential increase in passenger volume. The lack of coal smoke has been considerably lessened during peak hours (they still run a few coal trains during non peak hours). Audibly the transition hasn't been as much of a win as the new cogs are noisier. The drone of the diesel is more obvious to me than the old steam engines as the peak combustion pressure is a heck of lot higher in a diesel than a steam locomotive. They could quiet the new engines but the resulting silencer would be the size of the engine.

    As for hiker impact, the new diesel cogs are far less intrusive then the old coal cogs. Reducing the cloud of coal smoke and its accompanying sulfur dioxide mist definitely is an improvement. The current AT crossing is near the summit complex so its not a pristine environment. For those who want to minimize the impact the West Side trail substantially reduces the impact.

    Does this mean I have no issue with the ongoing expansion plans of the cog like the proposed hotel and the new platform structure on the summit?. Not really but that is a different issue then the existence and operation of the cog and the autoroad. The summit was already at peak tourist capacity several years ago and the tragedy of the common is starting to rear its ugly head as the various interests are all jockeying to maximize their use of the limited summit space. Most of the MWC members have elected to act collaboratively but the cog with their substantial increase in ridership has elected to break with the collaborative approach leading to the ongoing conflict over summit resources. This is ongoing issue and the ultimate resolution is going to be several years out.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 06-26-2019 at 07:49 AM.

  7. #22
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJsName View Post
    Careful, it's easy to become accidentally ironic here. Like complaining about complainers, or screaming "no yelling" at your kids. Just because some people value stupid things doesn't mean they are stupid themselves. They might be, but that requires a longer conversation, or at least two posts.
    I wasn't being ironic and it wasn't necessarily a hiker specific take. I generally find people in love with themselves who proclaim their awesomeness to the world to be annoying and worth avoiding. These people fell into that category and had a condescending attitude toward "regular folks" like myself. Was not a broad brushed commentary on all trail runners, hikers, mountaineers, etc.
    NH 48 4k: 48/48; NH W48k: 46/48; NY 46: 6/46

  8. #23
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Thank you Wayne! The Cog and the road may not be the neighbor's you'd select, however, for being tourist driven, at times loud, bringing hordes of people to the summit where there's a building, they usually behave as well as possible in keeping true to their causes. It's not wilderness, at least it's not 6 Flags. I can still hike on weekdays, bad days (not dangerous) early, etc., to avoid some of the crowds.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

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