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Thread: Mayday! Mayday! Mayday! Ahhh, Fugetaboutit.

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    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Mayday! Mayday! Mayday! Ahhh, Fugetaboutit.

    Here's a weird one:

    Guy calls for a rescue and then he doesn't feel like waiting around for it so he walks down Ammo.

    Maybe we need faster rescues in the cell phone era!
    Nobody told me there'd be days like these
    Strange days indeed -- most peculiar, mama
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  2. #2
    Senior Member richard's Avatar
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    If this news is accurate, these self centered people should be charged for the rescue efforts more than any other.

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    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Self rescue is the best rescue. A fine here seems like it would be a deterrent for people to call 911 if they need help. I wonder if their phones died, as I wouldn't be surprised if they were using their phones' flashlights (plus the cold). Need more details.
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    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJsName View Post
    Self rescue is the best rescue. A fine here seems like it would be a deterrent for people to call 911 if they need help. I wonder if their phones died, as I wouldn't be surprised if they were using their phones' flashlights (plus the cold). Need more details.
    If someone is negligent as it seems in this case. They should be fined, that is the law now. As far as fining being a deterrent to calling 911? I fail to see how. The cost of useless rescues need to be addressed, not to mention holding people accountable for needlessly risking SAR personal.

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    Moderator David Metsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    If someone is negligent as it seems in this case. They should be fined, that is the law now. As far as fining being a deterrent to calling 911? I fail to see how. The cost of useless rescues need to be addressed, not to mention holding people accountable for needlessly risking SAR personal.
    As far as I know, the charges are only to recover SAR costs. It's not a fine to be used as a deterrent.
    You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself, any direction you choose. -- Dr. Seuss

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    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Metsky View Post
    As far as I know, the charges are only to recover SAR costs. It's not a fine to be used as a deterrent.
    My bad, I know it's been discussed before. It's a mandatory charge for services only imposed to those deemed to have been negligent that didn't but a hikesafe card. I.E., it's a punishment with a variable cost.

    Re: negligence here, I certainly haven't read enough about this issue to deem it as negligence - does anyone have more information on this?
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    Senior Member hikerbrian's Avatar
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    Sounds like the guy thought he was having a heart attack. Speculation: perhaps they hoped rescuers would be able to get there very quickly. When that didn't happen, they evaluated their options and opted to hike down and have a chance at survival rather than waiting an uncertain amount of time, which they thought was actually a bigger risk. Perhaps they hoped rescuers would catch up to them. They should have had better gear (it seems, from the article), and it was clearly quite irresponsible to not inform rescuers of their new plans. But it's plausible they were quite gripped with the situation and were just trying to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Believing you're having a heart attack on top of a tall, cold mountain as it's getting dark - that's no joke.
    Sure. Why not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hikerbrian View Post
    Sounds like the guy thought he was having a heart attack. Speculation: perhaps they hoped rescuers would be able to get there very quickly. When that didn't happen, they evaluated their options and opted to hike down and have a chance at survival rather than waiting an uncertain amount of time, which they thought was actually a bigger risk. Perhaps they hoped rescuers would catch up to them. They should have had better gear (it seems, from the article), and it was clearly quite irresponsible to not inform rescuers of their new plans. But it's plausible they were quite gripped with the situation and were just trying to keep putting one foot in front of the other. Believing you're having a heart attack on top of a tall, cold mountain as it's getting dark - that's no joke.
    They were 3/4 of a mile and maybe an hour tops from an easy extraction point and instead chose to hike over 4 miles and 7 hours down a steep and wet trail. Maybe heart attacks cloud the judgement of the entire group but I'm not sure I would have made that same choice if I thought I was having an actual medical emergency.

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    Senior Member richard's Avatar
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    They called for a rescue. They could’ve & should’ve called to inform of the new plans. Inconsiderate.

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    Senior Member hikerbrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshandBaron View Post
    They were 3/4 of a mile and maybe an hour tops from an easy extraction point and instead chose to hike over 4 miles and 7 hours down a steep and wet trail. Maybe heart attacks cloud the judgement of the entire group but I'm not sure I would have made that same choice if I thought I was having an actual medical emergency.
    Again, complete speculation on my part, and I might be totally wrong. But that last 3/4 of a mile is not at all easy, and there's little chance someone that thinks they're having a heart attack is going to walk steeply uphill, no matter how short the requisite distance. It's just not possible. My guess is, weighing their options, they decided to start in the downward direction, thinking that was their best chance at survival with temps dropping and night coming. They kept putting one foot in front of the the other, not necessarily planning to hike the whole 4 miles down. But eventually they found themselves at the trailhead. They should have informed their would-be rescuers. No question. But again they might not have wanted to call off the rescue, thinking any step might be their last. I suspect it was quite comforting to think help was on its way. It's also possible they lost cell coverage some ways down the trail, I really don't know. Lots of speculation on my part. Don't quote me on any of it! Unless I turn out to be right. ;-)
    Sure. Why not.

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    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richard View Post
    They called for a rescue. They could’ve & should’ve called to inform of the new plans. Inconsiderate.
    I agree that they should have if they could, but how are you certain that they *could*? I'm not ruling out them doing something inconsiderate - but I'm not certain of it based on what I've read. We don't know if they still had working phones and we don't know if the medical issue was over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikerbrian View Post
    Again, complete speculation on my part, and I might be totally wrong. But that last 3/4 of a mile is not at all easy, and there's little chance someone that thinks they're having a heart attack is going to walk steeply uphill, no matter how short the requisite distance. It's just not possible. My guess is, weighing their options, they decided to start in the downward direction, thinking that was their best chance at survival with temps dropping and night coming. They kept putting one foot in front of the the other, not necessarily planning to hike the whole 4 miles down. But eventually they found themselves at the trailhead. They should have informed their would-be rescuers. No question. But again they might not have wanted to call off the rescue, thinking any step might be their last. I suspect it was quite comforting to think help was on its way. It's also possible they lost cell coverage some ways down the trail, I really don't know. Lots of speculation on my part. Don't quote me on any of it! Unless I turn out to be right. ;-)
    If they don't want to walk 3/4 of a mile uphill what makes them think rescue wants to do 4 miles of it? IMO, that final 3/4 of a mile is among the easier parts of a Mt Washington climb from Ammo. I would assume the summit structures in sight would be more of a motivation to go that way than an unseen rescue approaching from a far greater distance. My speculation would be the guy got winded on a climb and someone panicked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJsName View Post
    I agree that they should have if they could, but how are you certain that they *could*? I'm not ruling out them doing something inconsiderate - but I'm not certain of it based on what I've read. We don't know if they still had working phones and we don't know if the medical issue was over.
    We know they had both a working phone and service. Initial contact was made around 6:00pm and second contact was made at 9:30pm. They didn't reach the trailhead until 1:00am. They should have called 911 with their intentions the second they decided to head back down the mountain from the spot they knew they had service. I would frame failure to do so as inconsiderate.

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    Thread should be titled "Monday Monday Monday" as most responses are along the lines of Monday morning quarterback responses - opinions that are based in assumptions and not facts. But I know if we eliminated those kind of posts then 80% of the traffic on this site would go away.

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    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldEric View Post
    Thread should be titled "Monday Monday Monday" as most responses are along the lines of Monday morning quarterback responses - opinions that are based in assumptions and not facts. But I know if we eliminated those kind of posts then 80% of the traffic on this site would go away.
    Hey Old Eric,

    I think what you see in many rescue-related posts is an attempt to understand what was going on and how a better outcome might have been reached.

    I think it counterproductive to scold victims and I try not to do so. Having said that I also believe there are lessons to be learned for all of us from every accident and rescue. The discussion / analyses of rescues often are enlightening.

    For example, I don't know how'd I'd handle a shortness-of-breath event on Ammo, but at lease I'm now thinking about what I might do.

    There but for the grace of god....
    cb
    Nobody told me there'd be days like these
    Strange days indeed -- most peculiar, mama
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