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Thread: Mt Tecumseh Elevation Article

  1. #31
    Senior Member Tom Rankin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Metsky View Post
    The number 48 isn't part of the list, it's been 46 and 47 in the past. There's no need to replace anything. If Hight or Guyot qualify they'll be added in their own right.
    I went searching for the 'Like' button for this post. (Some Forums have one! Hint! Hint!)
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Tom Rankin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob S View Post
    For me personally, regardless of actual height, the Catskills will always have 35 peaks, the ADKs 46, and the Whites 48. I value tradition over precision, but would not have any issue with any club changing their list. Like Tecumseh, life is too short, ..... (haha!), and I'd prefer to keep hiking the peaks I want to hike, whether on a list or not. :-)
    LOL, you can tell who is from NY here (I guess myself excluded!)
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  3. #33
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Rankin View Post
    NY has a Nippletop, on the 46'er list. I remember one of my friends, on approaching the summit 'cone', saying 'Looks like we're still on the ***'.
    That is no where close to what I was trying to reference. You must be missing my point.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Tom Rankin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    That is no where close to what I was trying to reference. You must be missing my point.
    Sorry, I'll try to stay abreast of your next post.
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  5. #35
    Moderator bikehikeskifish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Rankin View Post
    I'll assume that's sarcasm, but does the FTFC ever precisely define any summit location? Or, do all of them have signs now? (It's been a while, but I do have 3 rounds)
    I think there are only a few with summit signs - Zealand, Washington, Moosilauke, and maybe Cabot. Was it sarcasm? Maybe... more a comment about the speed at which the list is likely to change, and about the 'precision' over 'tradition' comment.

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  6. #36
    Senior Member Scubahhh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Eagan View Post
    The DEC in New York has been dismantling the cairn atop Skylight, where for years tradition called for hikers to bring up rocks to add to it. Summit got to be a mess in recent years. The mountain also grew a couple of feet taller.
    I thought the idea behind carrying rocks up the high peaks was that volunteers would later use them to mark a trail on the exposed rock to protect delicate flora. Did I just dream that? If I did, it's a pretty cool dream, eh?!?
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  7. #37
    Senior Member TCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scubahhh View Post
    I thought the idea behind carrying rocks up the high peaks was that volunteers would later use them to mark a trail on the exposed rock to protect delicate flora. Did I just dream that? If I did, it's a pretty cool dream, eh?!?
    That's only the case where it has been requested. Used to occasionally see an official sign from a trail crew here or there asking for rocks to be brought up, but not so much anymore. When they need a bunch of rocks now, usually they are choppered in in a big white nylon bag. But the state has so diminished the trail crews that the bag of rocks typically sits on the summit for years without being used, until hikers and kids toss them around and spend time spelling out their names with them. Then when a trail crew finally plans to use them, they have to spend time gathering them back up.

    The tradition on Skylight is much older. Since at least the early 80s, the ADK High Peaks guidebook has said that "Legend states that if a climber fails to carry a rock from timberline to place on one of the two huge cairns on the summit, it will surely rain." So this is the source for the two enormous cairns. The most recent edition of that guidebook has removed that wording, and replaced it with a request to hikers to please NOT bring up rocks. In 1985 when I brought up a rock it was fun, and the cairns were not that "huge." But in recent years they got out of control, so that tradition had to end.
    Last edited by TCD; 11-21-2019 at 12:02 PM.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Salty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Rankin View Post
    I went searching for the 'Like' button for this post. (Some Forums have one! Hint! Hint!)
    I still have a few of these left in storage.

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  9. #39
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty View Post
    I still have a few of these left in storage.

    You don't have any friends though.
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  10. #40
    Moderator David Metsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob S View Post
    You're right. I should have said "tradition as known in my lifetime".
    The number was 46 until 1975, and 47 until 1980.
    You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself, any direction you choose. -- Dr. Seuss

  11. #41
    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Metsky View Post
    The number was 46 until 1975, and 47 until 1980.
    Haha - you beat me to it!

    Appeals to tradition alone are fallacious arguments. Arguing that traditions are important for the sake of being a tradition is an appeal to emotion (another fallacy). This isn't to say that traditions are bad - many are rooted with valid reasons beyond simply it being a tradition. Change is inevitable, and the best we can hope for is that it's not arbitrary. Improved measurement techniques doesn't seem arbitrary to me, and none of the other (and perhaps actually arbitrary) conditions are changing, such as prominence, or political boundaries. Some things won't change, like that fact that the hike up from the western side is quite lovely, and that sledding down the east is a blast.
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  12. #42
    Senior Member TomK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Metsky View Post
    The number was 46 until 1975, and 47 until 1980.
    Got out my 1976 copy of the WMG. It lists 46 (and the list is in the front of the book, not the back). Galehead and Bondcliff are omitted, and Wildcat "E" is listed rather than Wildcat "D".

    The 1979 copy lists 47, adding Galehead, and still lists Wildcat "E". The penultimate paragraph of the "lists" section notes "Galehead, with a new measurement of 4024 ft. becomes a 4000 footer."

    I did a trip in 1978 with an overnight at the Guyot shelter then did Bond and West Bond, did *not* go out to Bondcliff (why would I, it wasn't on the list , stupid younger me) but then visited Galehead because it *was* on the list.

    My next copy is the 1987, and that lists 48, including Galehead, Bondcliff, and Wildcat "E".

    Didn't get another copy until 2007, and that has Wildcat "D" rather than "E" - when did they make that change?
    The description of the Owl's Head path in that edition notes that "The AMC's Four Thousand Footer Committee will continue to recognize the knob where the well-beaten path currently ends as the official summit of Owl's Head."

    Have they changed that? Didn't see anything in either the 2012 or 2017 copies to indicate they had. Any thing else I missed?

    Is it the case that "most" folks that have "done the 4Ks" have done 48, including either Wildcat "E" or "D"? If that is the case, I think it is perfectly reasonable to say "we aren't changing the list anymore". It is also perfectly reasonable to make a change whenever new information becomes available. It isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things - we're just climbing hills here, not sending a probe to Neptune...

    TomK
    Last edited by TomK; 11-22-2019 at 02:49 PM. Reason: typo
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  13. #43
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomK View Post
    .... we're just climbing hills here, not sending a probe to Neptune...TomK
    I love that!

    Also, what's so wrong with the "NE-103?" Has a nice ring to it, no?
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  14. #44
    Senior Member jniehof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomK View Post
    we're just climbing hills here, not sending a probe to Neptune...
    I work in the other direction, but frankly, a lot of the conversation is surprisingly similar.

  15. #45
    Senior Member RollingRock's Avatar
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    I think there comes a point in time where tradition starts to kick in instead of precision. It's been 48 peaks since 1987. Before that, I can understand the need for precision. I can also understand precision as to where the actual highest point is, for example, on Owl's Head.

    I've hiked all the peaks in question whether being added or subtracted so it doesn't really matter to me. But the "NH 48" is so commonly used in the hiking community and recognized by those outside our region, I think it would be a shame to depart from using it.
    Last edited by RollingRock; 11-23-2019 at 08:36 PM.
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