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Thread: Private Campgrounds can be open in NH

  1. #1
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    Private Campgrounds can be open in NH

    I was not aware that private campgrounds can be open currently in NH.The USFS and State of NH campgrounds are closed but private campgrounds can be open.Some towns are questioning this https://www.unionleader.com/news/hea...fa214ccec.html

    Many resort towns require a 14 day quarantine for anyone coming from an area with active Corona Virus. Hard to envision 14 day quarantining in a camper with or without a hookup.

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    This does seem odd to me. Not sure what the rationale would be to permit them to open.

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    Senior Member Tom Rankin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHClimber View Post
    This does seem odd to me. Not sure what the rationale would be to permit them to open.
    Economics....
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    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    I was not aware that private campgrounds can be open currently in NH.The USFS and State of NH campgrounds are closed but private campgrounds can be open.Some towns are questioning this https://www.unionleader.com/news/hea...fa214ccec.html

    Many resort towns require a 14 day quarantine for anyone coming from an area with active Corona Virus. Hard to envision 14 day quarantining in a camper with or without a hookup.
    I think in NH it is common for folks without means to live in campgrounds during the warmer months.
    Nobody told me there'd be days like these
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    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    I think in NH it is common for folks without means to live in campgrounds during the warmer months.
    Some have the means and do it anyway. They live in the South all winter, then come back for the summer.

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    If it's economics, seems like an odd choice to jump start the economy.

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    If you look at the maps of CV-19 cases in NH there is a pretty distinct split between the more urban counties along the Mass border and the rest of the state. There are only two areas where community transmission has been identified. The campgrounds tend to be in the rural areas where new cases have been relatively static for a few weeks and the local vulnerable populations are in self quarantine so even if there are carriers fleeing the cities they dont have a lot of potential to get at the local population.

    Room and meals tax tied to tourism is major revenue to NH since there is no state income tax. Its mud season now with black flies soon to make an appearence but the state is desperate to salvage what they can of the tourism season. Bike Week is the unofficial start of the season and I expect there is desperation in the Lakes Region to pull that off.

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    According to an article today in the Conway Daily Sun, they are open because they are outdoors and there typically is distance between camp sites. In any event, pretty much all the local authorities and first responders are heavily petitioning the state to reverse the decision and close them.

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    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    If you look at the maps of CV-19 cases in NH there is a pretty distinct split between the more urban counties along the Mass border and the rest of the state. There are only two areas where community transmission has been identified. The campgrounds tend to be in the rural areas where new cases have been relatively static for a few weeks and the local vulnerable populations are in self quarantine so even if there are carriers fleeing the cities they dont have a lot of potential to get at the local population.

    Room and meals tax tied to tourism is major revenue to NH since there is no state income tax. Its mud season now with black flies soon to make an appearence but the state is desperate to salvage what they can of the tourism season. Bike Week is the unofficial start of the season and I expect there is desperation in the Lakes Region to pull that off.
    This will be interesting as we have more protest going on and a CT layer in Fairfield County, where the bulk of CT's cases are, filing a suit against Gov. Lamont saying his Executive Orders are unconstitutional. In yesterday's Hartford Courant, we had 12 pages of Obits & that does not include Fairfield County. I knew two people in Sunday's paper who died from Covid-19. Both in their 90's, one a classmate's father who drove me to Soccer camp decades ago & my first manager in an office environment. I suspect that Bike Week will have no one social distancing, looking to pack bars and restaurants and few wearing masks when not riding. I'll be shocked if we don't have a second wave causing another closure. (Dr. Pessimist signing off)
    Have fun & be safe
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    Senior Member B the Hiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    Hard to envision 14 day quarantining in a camper with or without a hookup.
    Agreed. The owner of one campground that is open is only taking in "seasonal"--that is, folks who are there for whole summer--campers. She claimed they aren't communicating with anyone else for two weeks.

    I live near a seasonal campground; it's all retirees who are there for the summer. Some of them have built fancy decks and even plant gardens, but those trailers aren't that big. They don't have extensive kitchens or big freezers. I suspect those folks go to the grocery store quite often, just out of boredom if nothing else. Two weeks in a camper with no buying of milk, cheese, yogurt, bread, veggies or fruit? I am skeptical.

    The thing is, no one knows who is a carrier and who is not, and it only takes one person to go into a store and infect two others, and that's how the thing spirals.

    My work is closed, and I would love to be up in New Hampshire right now! But I'm not going, and that's it. Connecticut has over 800 miles of hiking trails, so it's not like those of us not in New Hampshire are for want of places to go outdoors.

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    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    If you look at the maps of CV-19 cases in NH there is a pretty distinct split between the more urban counties along the Mass border and the rest of the state. There are only two areas where community transmission has been identified.
    This is an interesting point. It made me think of this: https://xkcd.com/1138/. To be fair, most things make me think of an xkcd comic, but I progress...

    It's pretty well established that more populated areas are seeing more cases, but I was curious if the rates were consistent across counties. I made this Google Sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing, which anyone with this link can view. What I found is that the rates are not consistent - the two counties along the MA border (Rockingham and Hillsborough) have, by far, the highest rates. This makes sense - they have the most people, so more chances for interactions. There are certainly other factors (people in those counties might travel more, etc.), but we'll ignore that because I don't have the data.

    I then wondered, what role does density play in this? So I tabulated population density and compared that to the confirmed infection rate, thinking that more densely populated counties would have higher rates. And they do! There is a strong correlation between density and infection rate (r=.852, where 1.0 = perfect correlation, and 0 = no correlation). Now, we know that correlation is not causation, but I think it's safe to assume that infections aren't making counties more dense.

    So, now that we've normalized rate by density, do we have any outliers? Nothing massive, but Carroll, Grafton, and Rockingham all have higher rates given their density than other counties, while Coos, Belknap, Straffod, and Sullivan have lower rates. The trend is linear, which suggests that as density increases, you can expect an increased infection rate of about 27.6 cases per 100,000 people per square mile (a weird metric, I know - sometimes 'normalizing' makes things weird).

    Feel free to provide any feedback or suggestions, or ask any questions.

    For those are you weary of Google Sheets, here is an image of it:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    | 64.5% W48: 19/48
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    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJsName View Post
    So, now that we've normalized rate by density, do we have any outliers? Nothing massive, but Carroll, Grafton, and Rockingham all have higher rates given their density than other counties, while Coos, Belknap, Straffod, and Sullivan have lower rates. The trend is linear, which suggests that as density increases, you can expect an increased infection rate of about 27.6 cases per 100,000 people per square mile (a weird metric, I know - sometimes 'normalizing' makes things weird).
    I wonder what the infection rates for these counties would have looked like if normal travel and visitations had not been preempted by the stay-at-home orders.

    For example, if N Conway, the Lakes Region or great North Woods saw their typical amount of March visitors without limitations, what would infection rates be for these tourist-destination counties? A lot higher is my guess. And that I suppose is the point of stay-at-home.

    Now we have people dressing up like wannabe-soldiers and demanding sanctions be lifted and their "rights" returned to them.

    No end to the weirdness caused by this pandemic.
    Nobody told me there'd be days like these
    Strange days indeed -- most peculiar, mama
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    Senior Member jniehof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    \There are only two areas where community transmission has been identified.
    The updates I'm getting from the city (which I think are mostly compiled from NHDHHS) have been saying "Community-based transmission continues to increase in the state and has been identified in all counties with cases" for a couple of days now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJsName View Post
    Feel free to provide any feedback or suggestions, or ask any questions.

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    Ssshhh, you will wake the Quants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jniehof View Post
    The updates I'm getting from the city (which I think are mostly compiled from NHDHHS) have been saying "Community-based transmission continues to increase in the state and has been identified in all counties with cases" for a couple of days now.
    I looked around on the DHHS site and could nor find any statistics on community transmission by county. The latest report https://www.dhhs.nh.gov/dphs/cdcs/co...t-04132020.pdf does not cover this statistic. I keep an eye on Coos and of two cases, the Whitefield case was three plus weeks ago and the Randolph case was two weeks ago (and most likely an import). If either one of the cases were from community contact from outside the county, they would be reported as a community contact case who happens to live in the county even though the contact occurred elsewhere. Semantics means a lot these days and I have no doubt that public leaders are trying to use it to their advantage to encourage policies in place.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 04-21-2020 at 09:15 AM.

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