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Thread: More trail closings?

  1. #106
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJsName View Post
    And isn't the speed limit on RT 11 there 50mph? That's 5 mph faster than on the Franconia Parkway.
    LOL...I get your drift. Do we really need to go there.? Figuratively and literally.
    Last edited by skiguy; 04-28-2020 at 10:42 AM.
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  2. #107
    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    LOL...I get your drift. Do we really need to go there.? Figuratively and literally.
    Hehehe, I am glad you appreciate it.
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  3. #108
    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHClimber View Post
    From latest Conway daily sun. Locals ainít happy with trail usage.

    https://www.conwaydailysun.com/news/...692053b99.html
    The locals do not own the trails, they own the property they bought and live on. If you don't want to deal with tourist, don't move to an area where it thrives. People are going to go out, that is a fact. I myself, never stay home, me and my dog are out all the time when I'm not working. I have frankly had enough of the 'stay home' police. If your not a government official, mind your own business. Even on this site, there are people who are borderline militant about it. Stay in your house if you want too. Its possible to go out and be safe, I'm not even suggesting that the crowds at Dianna's Baths are a good thing, but its up to the Forest Service to block the lots.

  4. #109
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    The locals do not own the trails, they own the property they bought and live on. If you don't want to deal with tourist, don't move to an area where it thrives. People are going to go out, that is a fact. I myself, never stay home, me and my dog are out all the time when I'm not working. I have frankly had enough of the 'stay home' police. If your not a government official, mind your own business. Even on this site, there are people who are borderline militant about it. Stay in your house if you want too. Its possible to go out and be safe, I'm not even suggesting that the crowds at Dianna's Baths are a good thing, but its up to the Forest Service to block the lots.
    Thank you. Very well said

  5. #110
    Senior Member B the Hiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remix View Post

    Isnt it a law in CT to wear a mask?
    Yes it is! An executive order is legally binding, and it is now the law in Connecticut that anyone in a public place must wear a mask. People in grocery stores and at gas stations were mostly compliant, but not everyone. Now, anyone trying to walk into a store without one is going to get kicked out.

  6. #111
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    The Conway area has a lot of transplants and in general its real estate has been booming for years. The area around Diana's baths has been an ongoing issue for years. It perked up about a year after several older homes nearby on the opposite side of the street were gutted and upscaled which is happening all over the area but has accelerated on the West side road in recent years. Conway allowed the real bypass to get waylaid to keep the commercial interests happy with grid lock on the main drag and that upped the demand on the West Side road. There is also a higher end development just down the road that put more traffic on the road. West Side road has been an ongoing issue with through traffic and expect many folks wish they could gate it off. The FS put in the large parking area and upgraded the trail at one point and many local tourist publications listed the baths as family friendly must see. Given that its a 45 minute visit at best to the baths there is lot more traffic through the lot over the course of the day than a regular hiker lot and it tends to be from early morning to evening. There has been a steady drumbeat since the homes across the street were upgraded for something to be done. The FS did limited enforcement of the new parking lot but claimed the issue with overflow parking was not theirs. The police reluctantly have ticketed on couple of occasions and the nasty publicity about the unfriendliness of the Conway to highly valued tourists caused a lot of headaches and bad PR. There were attempts at a free shuttle to get around the parking issue and I think it was banned. Finally Conway hired some parking wardens to handle the traffic and they have reportedly been verbally abused by the tourists who demand their rights to park. It was bad situation pre CV-19 and it will be bad situation after CV-19.

    The same may be an issue in Jackson, what formerly were sparsely developed areas with seasonal traffic are now sprinkled with much higher end homes and rehabs as the property values have gone up. Hiker traffic is up and
    what typically happens is new people move into the area and start objecting to what has been the status quo for potentially 50 or 60 years or longer. Somewhat like the Ossipee mess years ago, the locals want their local trails and they do not want a lot of publicity to bring in the out of towners. I expect the recent push to hike local has pushed a lot of folks onto conservation lands that the locals even were not aware of or convenient ignored that they were open to the public.

    The Conway Daily Sun is a free advertising dependent newspaper. They want both tourist and local eyeballs to sell more advertising. It is not unusual for them to pick up on topics of controversial local interest during the week to get the non weekend readership up. If anyone believes that the letters to the editor are representative of the broad local area views they are sadly mistaken. Many of the same letter writers have been published for years as it draws attention to controversial causes. Sadly many newcomers do read the Sun and believe it as that is their only connection to what is very small year round community overlaid with a large vacation seasonal home tourism business on top of it.

    Its pretty standard practice that folks move to the mountains (or woods) to get away from it all and bring a lot of their baggage with them. I remember paddling over in the Bethel Maine area once with some local leaders on a large canoe event and the discussion was how many of the them got sick of what happened to North Conway and they sold out and moved to Bethel to "do it right".

  7. #112
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    The store manager and store owner have a duty to protect their employees and their assets. Finding out your store is hot spot for people catching an infectious illness would do your brand's reputation considerable harm.

    They have a right to refuse your patronage based on whether you comply with local ordinances. (Not on gender, color, race, sexual orientation, religion, age (bars, adult entertainment likely can on age) disability, etc.) Your belief that you have a right to possibly infect others, who are just doing their job serving you, isn't a protected class. We probably did see some silliness in Emotional Pet Support letters from doctors, good luck getting your doctor to say that you must be allowed to not cover your mouth in this case. Maybe your golf buddy, the chiropractor would, if you beat him/her on the course, however when they dig into his ability to write a script for your pulmonary or respiratory health he may find his license pulled.

    You would have never imagined that six months ago, the cashier at your local grocery store or the person stocking pasta and TP were vital to our society, yet here we are. No High School kid bargained for that. The MD at least had an inkling it might happen & the MD is generally paid for that risk & their expertise. Same with an EMT and Police Officer. Making kids and retirees feel a little better risking their lives to bring you toilet paper is not asking very much of you and risking your precious freedom. Your freedom to bare your oral cavities in public should not infringe on another person's right to live.

    Regarding the Diana's Bath picture, most of the people I saw looked more like typical tourist. In trying not to play the tourist snob game where some activities of tourism are better than others, who am I kidding, I'm playing it, the hiking public is a bit more thoughtful of our impact. Although the FB and Instagram faction may not be.....
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  8. #113
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    BTW, depends where you are but the locals do own many of the lesser trails where folks are being directed to. I own a piece of an RMC trail and RMC claims no rights to it being there. Should I decide I did not want it to be there I expect many would be disappointed but they would respect my rights (in reality with a relocation, they could bypass my lot). Many of the RMC trails north of RT2 are on privately owned land initially. The Shelburne Trails association trails are similar. The trail network around AMC Cold River Camp and the Chatham Trails association trails also had a fair share of private ownership. I think many locals are comfortable with an informal agreement but would object to a formal access agreement. Newcomers may be less friendly to this concept and thus the no trespassing signs may go up.

    The WMNF, AMC and a few other organizations for many years had a confidential "red list" of trails that went over private property. They slowly chipped away at the list in private to reduce the number down to get away from situations like the old Mt Cabot trail. Some other relocations from private land you may or may not be aware of are the major South Moat trail and trailhead relocation from private land, the Ammo parking lot, the Castle Trail relocation in Randolph and the Starr King trailhead and trail relocation in Jefferson. These and others were all made based on the list. Even Diana's Bath trail was relocated at least once to get it out of the Farmers field down the road although that was before I had seen the list.

  9. #114
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B the Hiker View Post
    Yes it is! An executive order is legally binding, and it is now the law in Connecticut that anyone in a public place must wear a mask. People in grocery stores and at gas stations were mostly compliant, but not everyone. Now, anyone trying to walk into a store without one is going to get kicked out.
    Thanks for the clarification on that. The wording of the order was so wishy-washy I was curious if the Governor realized they were pushing the legal limits of authority with the vague wording. Starting to see a lot of blog posts regarding the Constitutional right to freedom of movement, is a pandemic considered a "national emergency" in the traditional sense (i.e. a physical enemy invading the country, etc), etc so I was curious about the use of words that "suggest" compliance but don't necessarily legally require it. I expect a lot of court cases on a variety of topics is forthcoming....
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  10. #115
    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    I'm headed to SC and GA soon and glad they're "opening up". I can keep a social distance and face mask there as easily as anywhere else. The southern end of and approach to the AT and Springer Mtn are open and have been throughout as have been Amicalola SP and Lodge, but not the restaurant. I love my home and landscaping but there is nothing that will confine me here; I'll take my chances with corona, it's losing freedom and getting around outdoors that's more harmful to my physical and mental health.

  11. #116
    Senior Member iAmKrzys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    "WHEREAS, there exists a compelling interest, in order to limit the transmission of COVID-19,
    in requiring the use of appropriate personal protective equipment in public places when and where
    the risk of transmission is higher; and..."
    If an executive order cannot describe something precisely enough that it would not need to use a word "appropriate" (as in "appropriate personal protective equipment") I doubt it can withstand any real challenge in court.

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAmKrzys View Post
    If an executive order cannot describe something precisely enough that it would not need to use a word "appropriate" (as in "appropriate personal protective equipment") I doubt it can withstand any real challenge in court.
    Yet .gov doesn't care because it will outspend you in court. That is the name of the legislative unconstitutional game these days. And people generally will support that tactic when it's their party of choice in charge and will complain about that tactic when their party of choice is not in charge. I find all the hypocrasy disappointing.
    Last edited by NHClimber; 04-28-2020 at 04:32 PM.

  13. #118
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    The Conway Daily Sun is a free advertising dependent newspaper. They want both tourist and local eyeballs to sell more advertising. It is not unusual for them to pick up on topics of controversial local interest during the week to get the non weekend readership up. If anyone believes that the letters to the editor are representative of the broad local area views they are sadly mistaken. Many of the same letter writers have been published for years as it draws attention to controversial causes.
    That would make sense, out local paper has the same few people writing letters also and we know who they are. My guess is most newspapers have they dedicated writers sprinkled with a few new ones from time to time depending on the topic.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    That would make sense, out local paper has the same few people writing letters also and we know who they are. My guess is most newspapers have they dedicated writers sprinkled with a few new ones from time to time depending on the topic.
    Agree. Symptom of pretty much all media these days. Sensationalize and spin.

  15. #120
    Senior Member B the Hiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHClimber View Post
    That is the name of the legislative unconstitutional game these days.
    A quick little civics lesson here. The governor sits atop the executive branch. The General Assembly (or whatever the state's legislature is called) sits atop the legislative branch.

    The problem is that legislatures are often not able to produce laws fast enough to keep up with developments, so most states, and the federal government, allow the executive to issue an "executive order" that has the force of law. Unless specifically barred by the constitution because the executive has no say over a topic, an executive order can fill the space not already filled by legislation, as long as the legislature itself could legally produce a law in that area.

    The legislature can always pass a law that overrides an executive order, and the next executive can also simply undo a predecessor's order.

    So, if a state's legislature can shut down state parks, for example, or limit the number of people who can assemble, and it hasn't, the governor can step in an issue an executive order doing just that and if the legislature doesn't like it, they can pass a law overriding it.

    I hope that makes sense.

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