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Thread: More trail closings?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by B the Hiker View Post
    A quick little civics lesson here. The governor sits atop the executive branch. The General Assembly (or whatever the state's legislature is called) sits atop the legislative branch.

    The problem is that legislatures are often not able to produce laws fast enough to keep up with developments, so most states, and the federal government, allow the executive to issue an "executive order" that has the force of law. Unless specifically barred by the constitution because the executive has no say over a topic, an executive order can fill the space not already filled by legislation, as long as the legislature itself could legally produce a law in that area.

    The legislature can always pass a law that overrides an executive order, and the next executive can also simply undo a predecessor's order.

    So, if a state's legislature can shut down state parks, for example, or limit the number of people who can assemble, and it hasn't, the governor can step in an issue an executive order doing just that and if the legislature doesn't like it, they can pass a law overriding it.

    I hope that makes sense.
    Not what I was talking about. That said, as to executive order use, both parties whine about abuse of that process by the other. In any event, I was talking about legislatures on both side of the political spectrum passing laws that infringe on fundamental rights and force various privately funded groups to fight long battles in the courts. Again, both parties engage in that conduct when in power. Only getting worse with the polarization of the country. A shame in my opinion.

  2. #122
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Polarization is a shame. These use to work together, compromise is what keep the law of the land in the middle. Now when one is in charge, they go to far to there side, voters pick the other and it swings back the other way too far, rinse, repeat. Now it takes a pandemic or natural catastrophe to get them to work together and even then it's contentious. Aren't we still waiting for an infrastructure bill?
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  3. #123
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHClimber View Post
    Not what I was talking about. That said, as to executive order use, both parties whine about abuse of that process by the other. In any event, I was talking about legislatures on both side of the political spectrum passing laws that infringe on fundamental rights and force various privately funded groups to fight long battles in the courts. Again, both parties engage in that conduct when in power. Only getting worse with the polarization of the country. A shame in my opinion.
    To me at least I blame Congress. They do progressively less and less with each session, kick all of our problems down the road and accomplish nothing so executives step into the void with a barrage of "pseudo laws" via executive order and as B The Hiker pointed out they just get reversed and reinstated by subsequent administrations in a see-saw fashion so we go nowhere. I think the public should be directing all of their vitriol at multi-decade Congressman who have done nothing versus the President (not that we've had many good leaders in this position either over the past few decades). There are so many outrageous acts of incompetence from so many of them yet there they are election after election. No long term vision or thinking. Just running from fire to fire. Anyway...drifting into the forbidden zone of VFTT so rant over.
    Last edited by DayTrip; 04-29-2020 at 07:42 AM. Reason: referenced wrong person
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  4. #124
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    The Maine governor just pushed back the end of stay at home orders until the end of May with some modifications. She was speculating that Maine's tourist industry would reopen over the summer but expected the 14 day quarantine for visitors would continue. Sounds to me like a quick trip to Baxter for out of state folks will be awhile. I think at this point some state politicians are over conservative with estimations and then throwing "bones" to the voters to make it look like they are flexible. BTW Vermont is pushing a more severe 14 day quarantine, if a resident leaves the state they to are supposed to quarantene for 14 days.

  5. #125
    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikehikeskifish View Post
    My own observations from Hillsborough County NH:

    * Grocery stores - probably 25-33% of employees have masks and 33-55% of shoppers
    * Convenience stores - on a bike ride this weekend, I stopped to get fluids - nobody in the store or pumping gas or anything had masks or gloves
    * Occasionally, I see a driver around town wearing one
    * At the service department of the car dealership - I wore my buff since I had my bike to leave my car. I think one service area employee had a mask on, the rest did not

    I've driven only once for the service and 4 times for food over the last 6 weeks... but I am cycling and walking out of my house. I am 'lucky' that I sit at a computer for a living and can pretty much do that anywhere, so I am working at home.

    I do miss the Whites, but I believe they will still be there.

    I understand both the desire to go to the Whites, and the desire to keep people home.

    I understand that many of these decisions have political bases (and thanks for keeping blatant politics out of it, I do appreciate that), and I also understand that for many politicians, this is a no-win situation. "(Re)Opening the state (country)" will please many but annoy many more. Same with keeping it closed.

    I hope you all are healthy. I, and my family, are.

    Tim
    Compliance is pretty high around the Somerville, MA area. I had to go pick-up a misdelivered package today in Medford (MA). I saw hundreds of people out, but only 7 without masks (although several people with masks didn't have them over their faces at the time). Everyone in the store had one on. Of the 7 with out masks, 5 were runners (I did see two runners with masks on, another wearing a buff around their neck). It looks like the running community needs to get their act together.

    The other two I saw looked like homeless people, fishing into the Mystic. All 7 people were white, and 6 were males. All were under 50, and most were likely under 35. These are just observations and not meant for conclusions to be drawn.
    Last edited by TJsName; 04-29-2020 at 12:25 PM. Reason: removed location ambiguity
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  6. #126
    Senior Member Grey J's Avatar
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    To blame Congress is to grossly over-simplify what has really been happening in the legislative branch over the last decade at least. However, venturing into a coherent counter argument will surely place me over the line of acceptable commentary in this forum. I also take issue with your blanket statement about the Presidency and a "lack of good leaders" over the past few decades. Comparisons of some recent occupants show very stark differences. Am I straddling the line Mr Moderator or have I already crossed it?
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  7. #127
    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey J View Post
    To blame Congress is to grossly over-simplify what has really been happening in the legislative branch over the last decade at least. However, venturing into a coherent counter argument will surely place me over the line of acceptable commentary in this forum. I also take issue with your blanket statement about the Presidency and a "lack of good leaders" over the past few decades. Comparisons of some recent occupants show very stark differences. Am I straddling the line Mr Moderator or have I already crossed it?
    The line was crossed a few post before yours.

  8. #128
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    The line was crossed a few post before yours.
    Agreed. It will be nice when things totally open up again. Then we can get back to talking about hiking again.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  9. #129
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    The Maine governor just pushed back the end of stay at home orders until the end of May with some modifications. She was speculating that Maine's tourist industry would reopen over the summer but expected the 14 day quarantine for visitors would continue. Sounds to me like a quick trip to Baxter for out of state folks will be awhile. I think at this point some state politicians are over conservative with estimations and then throwing "bones" to the voters to make it look like they are flexible. BTW Vermont is pushing a more severe 14 day quarantine, if a resident leaves the state they to are supposed to quarantene for 14 days.
    I suspect real estate sites have data for length of stay but saying that your open for vacation business and requiring 14 day quarantine, shelter in place isn't really being open. What does that mean? If I come up to Bar Harbor, the first two weeks I can not go to a restaurant, walk into shops go to Acadia? Do many out of state tourist go for a month at a time or is that more people with second homes. Even a month would be 50%shelter in place and slightly more than 50% free to shop, dine, play, etc. (In both VT and ME's cases, if there are two of the New England States where resident's travel to another state, I imagine it's ME and VT. Mainer's will go see a ball game and a weekend in Boston or a Football game. Neither of those are looking very appealing.

    OR - I drive to Portland, rent a car with ME plates and drive to BSP. (I've been to BSP in a year beginning with a 2, however, I haven't been up Katahdin in a year starting in a 2. ) Are they checking ID's or just going my license plates to determine who's out of state? I only recall them asking where I am from not checking ID. That would make the day use line even longer.

    OR - I start a "Be a hiking Buddy website" where I match Mainer's up with out of state hikers. I pay for gas & food, we go to the gate, I'm your brother-in-law from two towns away from you & my wallet is packed in the trunk with my gear.

    As it is, I just read that our Independent Attorney General Barr may consider suing states for enforcing restrictions. I believe Roger Goodell has a home in Maine & if they aren't playing football before Election Day, that's not going to look like an economy that's bouncing back strongly. (Disclaimer, I am not planning a ME or VT trip anytime soon)
    Have fun & be safe
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  10. #130
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    If that is truly the policy and not posturing it will be highly controversial. There are two Maines, the southern 3 counties and the coast up to Bar Harbor and the rest of the state. The southern Maine area is within easy driving or a train ride from Mass so day trippers are significant. The other part of Maine tends to get more long term guests but 14 days is pushing it. As it is I expect the cruise industry is DOA and both Portland and Bar Harbor got boatloads of cruise ship passengers all summer long into the fall.

    At BSP they dont charge the road fee to Maine residents and if you have out of state plates they usually ask what state you are from and if any one in the car is from Maine they usually wave the road fee.

  11. #131
    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    I suspect real estate sites have data for length of stay but saying that your open for vacation business and requiring 14 day quarantine, shelter in place isn't really being open. What does that mean? If I come up to Bar Harbor, the first two weeks I can not go to a restaurant, walk into shops go to Acadia? Do many out of state tourist go for a month at a time or is that more people with second homes. Even a month would be 50%shelter in place and slightly more than 50% free to shop, dine, play, etc. (In both VT and ME's cases, if there are two of the New England States where resident's travel to another state, I imagine it's ME and VT. Mainer's will go see a ball game and a weekend in Boston or a Football game. Neither of those are looking very appealing.

    OR - I drive to Portland, rent a car with ME plates and drive to BSP. (I've been to BSP in a year beginning with a 2, however, I haven't been up Katahdin in a year starting in a 2. ) Are they checking ID's or just going my license plates to determine who's out of state? I only recall them asking where I am from not checking ID. That would make the day use line even longer.

    OR - I start a "Be a hiking Buddy website" where I match Mainer's up with out of state hikers. I pay for gas & food, we go to the gate, I'm your brother-in-law from two towns away from you & my wallet is packed in the trunk with my gear.

    As it is, I just read that our Independent Attorney General Barr may consider suing states for enforcing restrictions. I believe Roger Goodell has a home in Maine & if they aren't playing football before Election Day, that's not going to look like an economy that's bouncing back strongly. (Disclaimer, I am not planning a ME or VT trip anytime soon)
    The term self-quarantine isn't ambiguous. What do you think the goal of the order is with regards to your behavior? Sure, there will be people trying to 'beat the system', as with anything. I suggest not getting too wrapped up in hypotheticals.
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  12. #132
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sierra View Post
    The line was crossed a few post before yours.
    Is that directed at me? I thought I was making a pretty harmless generalized statement about out government letting us down over the years by failing to deal with significant issues and pass strong legislation. Given the limitations of this forum regarding politics it is hard to make more than a blanket statement on these things. I'm not specifically attacking any particular person, position or party. I'm just generally disappointed with where we are overall in government. If this is the kind of statement that is going to get people all fired up and offended it's hard to imagine any of us having a conversation about anything unless we all agree 100% in advance, at which point there is nothing to talk about....
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  13. #133
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    Is that directed at me? I thought I was making a pretty harmless generalized statement about out government letting us down over the years by failing to deal with significant issues and pass strong legislation. Given the limitations of this forum regarding politics it is hard to make more than a blanket statement on these things. I'm not specifically attacking any particular person, position or party. I'm just generally disappointed with where we are overall in government. If this is the kind of statement that is going to get people all fired up and offended it's hard to imagine any of us having a conversation about anything unless we all agree 100% in advance, at which point there is nothing to talk about....
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  14. #134
    Senior Member TJsName's Avatar
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    I personally am shocked that this wasn't a Clint Eastwood character spitting.
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  15. #135
    Senior Member sierra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    Is that directed at me? I thought I was making a pretty harmless generalized statement about out government letting us down over the years by failing to deal with significant issues and pass strong legislation. Given the limitations of this forum regarding politics it is hard to make more than a blanket statement on these things. I'm not specifically attacking any particular person, position or party. I'm just generally disappointed with where we are overall in government. If this is the kind of statement that is going to get people all fired up and offended it's hard to imagine any of us having a conversation about anything unless we all agree 100% in advance, at which point there is nothing to talk about....
    Absolutely not, wasn't directed at anyone specific. The political dialog was already going on when you chimed in. Hey its not my ball, if the admins let the discussion go on, so be it. It's just more political then usual for this site.

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