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Thread: NH Mask Mandate in Effect

  1. #16
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    I’ve been wearing my BSL-4 suit for all my hikes and let me tell you it is no walk in the park. First of all, my Prius has a fairly low towing capacity, so towing the large diesel generator that supplies the positive pressure for the suit it quite the challenge. You should see the looks I get at the trailhead! And I barely made it up to the Caps Ridge lot a few weeks ago. Getting the suit on also presents challenges - do I wear my pack on the outside or on the inside? Have you tried to put on a pack over a PPPS suit, particularly the face shield? People at the trailhead laugh at me - they are so mean. And of course the suit snags on everything and the boots make any kind of rock hopping or scrambling quite difficult (one of these days I’ll tell you my story of climbing VMC Direct Direct with the PPPS - talk about rope management skills!). Then there is the air hose. Trying to drag three miles of air hose is exhausting. Just something else that snags on everything and gets you dirty looks from hikers who can’t even bother to bring a face mask. The suit legs also start to become a drag (literally) with all the pee bottles that I accumulate. And let me tell you a No. 2 event is absolutely out of the question unless you are into the whole Uta Pippig thing. Oh, and the damn manufacturers do not mention anything about CO2 buildup from engaging in strenuous (and perhaps unintended?) activities using the PPPS. So apologies to those that witnessed a creepy disoriented dude in a moon suit wandering around the summit of Osceola back in September. If folks have specific questions about PPPS and hiking or climbing, I’ve accumulated a wealth of knowledge since last March and have been through several hundred suits in my attempt to gain that knowledge. Thank god I save on fuel costs with the Prius.

  2. #17
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    A recent study shows that neck gaiters can actually result in *more* droplets than wearing no mask at all. https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    Wouldn't a buff be the easiest thing for hiking? Just pull it up over your face when you have to and take it right back off when it's not needed. In terms of protection it is probably well down the "effective list" but I personally am not super worried about getting COVID on a hike. I'd be more looking at it from a compliance standpoint than a risk standpoint. I have a bug buff I carry in Spring that is pretty light and easy to breather through. Probably just throw that in my hip belt pocket.
    I was going to suggest same. I asked my wife why she just bought that new pack of buffs from Amazon, she often runs on a local rail-trail and said having the buff around her neck and being able to pull it up in an instant was most convenient. Besides, it's cold now so that extra is there and even cool that they have some bright orange for the season.

    I also happened to see this and thought the easily deployed face covering was neat
    https://yooperchook.com/

    Thanks for posting this Chris. I was thinking last night people should be alerted from the NH'ers, as everyone is busy trying to follow guidelines for their own states.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocket21 View Post
    A recent study shows that neck gaiters can actually result in *more* droplets than wearing no mask at all. https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083
    That wasn't a study of mask efficacy, it was a proof of concept for a lower cost testing procedure. See the link in my previous post.

  5. #20
    Moderator bikehikeskifish's Avatar
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    I love my Buff(s)... but I am told the are either ineffective or actually worse than nothing, so I have been trying to comply with social distancing as best I can by

    Stepping off trail when it's convenient and not likely to cause damage
    Wearing a mask when not

    Pockets + gloves result in "misses" or "drops" while trying to fetch the mask. I will often have a Buff with me (and have for many years) but don't always have a mask, like when riding or walking the dog.

    I did the Wildcats last weekend and there were two outing groups - 5 from UNH and 20+/- from somewhere else. The latter tried to get out of *my* way by half going to one side and half going to the other resulting in a gauntlet that was far narrower than 6'. I did the Z-B traverse the previous weekend with 3 friends. We wore masks in the car with the windows open but walked either 2x2 or single file for 10+ hours without, so not sure how effective that is. It's only interesting if one of us was positive and nobody else caught the virus. Since we're all fine I'm thinking we simply don't know how effective countermeasures would have been.

    I am not personally super concerned about a chance encounter/passing outdoors. I still greet neighbors while we are out walking our dogs. I keep those encounters as short as possible. But, I also want to get this over as soon as possible.

    Tim
    Last edited by bikehikeskifish; 11-20-2020 at 07:59 AM.
    Bike, Hike, Ski, Sleep. Eat, Fish, Repeat.

  6. #21
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by NHClimber View Post
    Iíve been wearing my BSL-4 suit for all my hikes and let me tell you it is no walk in the park. First of all, my Prius has a fairly low towing capacity, so towing the large diesel generator that supplies the positive pressure for the suit it quite the challenge. You should see the looks I get at the trailhead! And I barely made it up to the Caps Ridge lot a few weeks ago. Getting the suit on also presents challenges - do I wear my pack on the outside or on the inside? Have you tried to put on a pack over a PPPS suit, particularly the face shield? People at the trailhead laugh at me - they are so mean. And of course the suit snags on everything and the boots make any kind of rock hopping or scrambling quite difficult (one of these days Iíll tell you my story of climbing VMC Direct Direct with the PPPS - talk about rope management skills!). Then there is the air hose. Trying to drag three miles of air hose is exhausting. Just something else that snags on everything and gets you dirty looks from hikers who canít even bother to bring a face mask. The suit legs also start to become a drag (literally) with all the pee bottles that I accumulate. And let me tell you a No. 2 event is absolutely out of the question unless you are into the whole Uta Pippig thing. Oh, and the damn manufacturers do not mention anything about CO2 buildup from engaging in strenuous (and perhaps unintended?) activities using the PPPS. So apologies to those that witnessed a creepy disoriented dude in a moon suit wandering around the summit of Osceola back in September. If folks have specific questions about PPPS and hiking or climbing, Iíve accumulated a wealth of knowledge since last March and have been through several hundred suits in my attempt to gain that knowledge. Thank god I save on fuel costs with the Prius.
    Thanks NHClimber. That's one of the funniest posts I have ever read on this site. Just a thought though, couldn't you maybe use a compressed air cylinder for the positive pressure? It would at least cut down on the air hose problems

  7. #22
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    I think that passing someone on the trail poses no risk. I usually just turn my head away. I mean, it's only for a few seconds. The CDC says that if you are within 6 feet of an infected person for 15 minutes or more, then you should consider yourself exposed. 15 minutes! Early in the season, I passed a hiker on North Twin. He bushwacked into the shrub about 10 feet...with a mask on. A couple of weeks ago while on Moat, I was gaining on a hiker who stepped off the trail, then fumbled with trying to get his mask on. He finally got it on after I had passed him and was about 10 feet up the trail. At my local gym which has been open since June, it is still only about 15% of the usual number of patrons. And, I still see people driving wearing masks.

  8. #23
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    It will be interesting this winter to see how many people actually follow through on recommended practices such as social distancing. Good luck trying to maintain 6 feet of distance while Microspiking in the Whites. If ever there was a time to hike in snowshoes...

  9. #24
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    One of the engineers I work with, one of the first to religiously wear a face mask, tested positive for Covid. Masks aren't the prevent all they are touted to be. Its a placebo to placate the masses into thinking they are doing "something" effective. Its going to spread, whether one wears a mask or not. Its the nature of a virus to spread. This one seems particularly adept at living true to its nature.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Salty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    One of the engineers I work with, one of the first to religiously wear a face mask, tested positive for Covid. Masks aren't the prevent all they are touted to be. Its a placebo to placate the masses into thinking they are doing "something" effective. Its going to spread, whether one wears a mask or not. Its the nature of a virus to spread. This one seems particularly adept at living true to its nature.
    Masks have never been touted to be 100% effective. Yes, it's going to spread no matter what, but masks reduce the spread. Less people sick, less opportunities for others getting sick. If 1 in 100 are sick, is it not understandable that you have a higher risk of catching it vs. 1 in 10,000?

    Masks are better at preventing outgoing droplets containing the virus from spreading into the air. There was a recent study that says they MAY provide some incoming protection as well, but perhaps not much. So your co-worker likely became infected a) because he let his guard down somewhere, b) someone else with COVID near him wasn't wearing a mask or c) sometimes unlikely scenarios happen (aka statistics) where an infected person is wearing a mask, some amount of droplets escape, and get through the infectee's mask. There's plenty of videos where the lighting shows all the spittle that comes out of your mouth just from talking. How hard is it to understand a mask is an effective barrier against sending out those droplets? Do you cover your mouth when you sneeze?

    If you have actual evidence of how this is a placation/placebo device, and I don't mean a one-off "insider" report, I mean good enough for court evidence, I'd be willing to reconsider. Otherwise, I think it's a disservice to others' health by spreading this kind of information around. People are dying, and I'm not saying this is you by any stretch, but I'm tired of hearing "well, it's mostly the elderly." That's someone's Mom, Grandad, Uncle, Friend etc.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocket21 View Post
    A recent study shows that neck gaiters can actually result in *more* droplets than wearing no mask at all. https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083
    It's not so much it being a neck gaiter then it being a polyester neck gaiter. Like the marketing for performance clothing, it wicks moisture away, it allows moisture to pass through.

    What I'd like to see tested is when you wear a bandana folded several times. If you are just folding it once so you can go out looking like a bandit, sure, that's not very effective and loose on the bottom. I can fold the larger ones three times so there is six layers of material. Thanks to the big hook chin and huge nose, I can tie it fairly tight so it forms a good seal. It's a little uncomfortable but since I've broken my nose 4X and wear a Cpap, a tight bandana for ten minutes or so isn't a big deal. (For longer times indoors, I also have mask)

    I'll usually wash them after they have been used for more than 30 minutes indoors.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty View Post
    Masks have never been touted to be 100% effective. Yes, it's going to spread no matter what, but masks reduce the spread. Less people sick, less opportunities for others getting sick. If 1 in 100 are sick, is it not understandable that you have a higher risk of catching it vs. 1 in 10,000?

    Masks are better at preventing outgoing droplets containing the virus from spreading into the air. There was a recent study that says they MAY provide some incoming protection as well, but perhaps not much. So your co-worker likely became infected a) because he let his guard down somewhere, b) someone else with COVID near him wasn't wearing a mask or c) sometimes unlikely scenarios happen (aka statistics) where an infected person is wearing a mask, some amount of droplets escape, and get through the infectee's mask. There's plenty of videos where the lighting shows all the spittle that comes out of your mouth just from talking. How hard is it to understand a mask is an effective barrier against sending out those droplets? Do you cover your mouth when you sneeze?

    If you have actual evidence of how this is a placation/placebo device, and I don't mean a one-off "insider" report, I mean good enough for court evidence, I'd be willing to reconsider. Otherwise, I think it's a disservice to others' health by spreading this kind of information around. People are dying, and I'm not saying this is you by any stretch, but I'm tired of hearing "well, it's mostly the elderly." That's someone's Mom, Grandad, Uncle, Friend etc.
    To piggyback on Salty's comments, If you or someone in your household has been to a bar or indoor dining with others, you've not been diligent unless you have figured out how to not touch anything and consume your food and beverages through your mask. If you are taking it off to talk, why? Speak a little louder.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  13. #28
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    Since maineguy asked about compressed air, I tried this on Everest last year. I figured I'm not Ed Viesturs so I'm going to need gas to make it. Problem is, the little cylinders just don't cut it to provide breathable air and keep enough positive pressure in the suit. I ended up getting hypoxia in the Khumbu icefall and had to be airlifted out after falling off a ladder and into the abyss. I got lodged in a crevasse and a la Joe Simpson started to slowly descend deeper as my suit deflated. So after that debacle and the negative international press that ensued, I thought I'd try a scuba tank (3300psi) followed by a carbon fiber tank (4500psi). I figured I'd start on something a little less challenging than K2, so I selected Pine Mountain, which I figured I could conquer in about 16 hours if I started at my usual 2am departure time. Needless to say, I made it only about 100 yards from the parking lot on Dolly Copp before collapsing under the weight of the tank. I woke up hours later after kids from the Horton Center found me. I had passed out with the tank on and the suit having ballooned to the size of the Hermit Lake shelter. The kids were able to deflate the suit with the help of a BB gun and I recovered nicely at Memorial for a few days. I've decided that ATV'ing in Gorham and on Peakbagger's property (if I can find it) is my future.

  14. #29
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Effectiveness of neck gaiters from this study:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GNX...VQI8g-7WE/view

    Conclusions

    • Neck gaiters provide similar performance to other cloth masks we have
    tested on manikins.
    • In general, these types of face coverings provide outward protection of
    ~50% for 1 μm aerosols and at least 80-90% for 5 μm aerosols.
    • A doubled-over neck gaiter blocks >90% of aerosols of size 0.5-5 μm.
    • The neck gaiters block 100% of droplets >20 μm from reaching the face of a
    manikin 30 cm away.
    • In the interest of not destroying the neck gaiters, we did not test the
    material filtration efficiency for <0.5 μm aerosols.
    • We did not test inward protection by the neck gaiters, but our results with
    cloth masks suggest that inward protection will be lower by ~10 percentage
    points.

  15. #30
    Senior Member DougPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty View Post
    Masks have never been touted to be 100% effective. Yes, it's going to spread no matter what, but masks reduce the spread. Less people sick, less opportunities for others getting sick. If 1 in 100 are sick, is it not understandable that you have a higher risk of catching it vs. 1 in 10,000?

    Masks are better at preventing outgoing droplets containing the virus from spreading into the air. There was a recent study that says they MAY provide some incoming protection as well, but perhaps not much. So your co-worker likely became infected a) because he let his guard down somewhere, b) someone else with COVID near him wasn't wearing a mask or c) sometimes unlikely scenarios happen (aka statistics) where an infected person is wearing a mask, some amount of droplets escape, and get through the infectee's mask. There's plenty of videos where the lighting shows all the spittle that comes out of your mouth just from talking. How hard is it to understand a mask is an effective barrier against sending out those droplets? Do you cover your mouth when you sneeze?

    If you have actual evidence of how this is a placation/placebo device, and I don't mean a one-off "insider" report, I mean good enough for court evidence, I'd be willing to reconsider. Otherwise, I think it's a disservice to others' health by spreading this kind of information around. People are dying, and I'm not saying this is you by any stretch, but I'm tired of hearing "well, it's mostly the elderly." That's someone's Mom, Grandad, Uncle, Friend etc.
    I concur.

    It comes down to the spreading ratio (R, the average number of people infected by 1 infected individual). If it is less than than one, the epidemic will die out, if greater than one the epidemic will increase. (R0 is estimated to be between 2 and 3 for covid-19 if no preventive measures are taken.) If everyone wears good masks and social distances reducing R to <30% of R0, covid-19 would die out. Thus a mask need not be 100% effective to quell the epidemic. And along the way, the better one protects oneself the less likely one is to get it.

    Unfortunately when the local infection rate is low (eg after a lockdown period), people tend to relax their defensive measures, R rises, and the infection rate is likely to increase. (As is happening right now...)

    One researcher described the exhaled droplets as "cannon balls" (large droplets) and aerosols (small droplets). The cannon balls drop out of the air pretty quickly (thus the 6 foot rule), but the aerosols can stay airborne for extended periods (like cigarette smoke). I have smelled cigarette smoke outdoors from 50 feet away when I was downwind and expect droplets containing covid-19 can travel similar distances. And when passed by runners or cyclists, I can feel their wake which I'm sure contains a good supply of exhaled droplets.

    I carry a good-quality mask when hiking and put it on whenever anyone else gets within 50-100 feet. (I also pay attention to the wind direction.) I usually wear a mask with a back-of-the-head strap and can simply rotate it to the side when it isn't needed.

    Doug

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