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Thread: NH Mask Mandate in Effect

  1. #76
    Senior Member TCD's Avatar
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    "Facebook survey" data are self selected and self reported. The sample, and the actual information reliability from each respondent are poor. I would not consider it to be in any way representative of "the true state of nature." So it's not really a strong enough premise on which to hang an argument. So while Rocket21's data may be open to several interpretations regarding causality, I think we have to take those data at face value. The Health Departments' case data, and the fact of the mask mandate on a particular date in one state and not the other, are fairly reliable inputs.

  2. #77
    Senior Member TEO's Avatar
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    Well, the two infectious disease researchers that I've met—I'm pretty sure that they're scientists—and are close friends of someone I know well, and have been advising some of the biggest sports professional sports leagues in the world and governments of some of the largest countries in the world in regard to COVID, who prior to this pandemic had goals such as eliminating malaria from a continent this year, both wear face masks and socially distance. In mid-February they told us everything that would likely happen, and indeed it did. This summer they told us when the surge would happen this fall, lo and behold, it did.

    If you don't understand that wearing a mask makes a difference and/or think that it somehow infringes upon your freedoms, you are selfish and stupid. If my high-school-aged nephew can play an entire season of soccer wearing a face mask, then you can put one on when you are around people hiking or otherwise.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEO View Post
    In mid-February they told us everything that would likely happen, and indeed it did. This summer they told us when the surge would happen this fall, lo and behold, it did.
    The "experts" told us in March that 2.2 million Americans would be dead by August 2020, and that there would be virtually no more deaths come October 2020.

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    The "experts" also told us in March not to wear a mask. Let us not forget Dr. Fauci on 60 Minutes on March 8, 2020: "There's no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you're in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better, and it might even block a droplet, but it's not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And often, there are unintended consequences, people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face."

  4. #79
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    Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm going to go with the most recent science, not what was said when virtually nothing was known about the virus. Remember when smoking didn't cause cancer?

    No one is saying a mask provides 100% protection. That doesn't mean they don't do anything. The mask guidance at the beginning was approached from a different perspective than we have been approaching it from since April. Guidance at the beginning was focused on how effective a mask is at preventing the virus from being inhaled. We now know the mask's effectiveness lies in its ability to prevent the virus from becoming airborne in the first place.

  5. #80
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Unless you are wearing a N95 mask or equivalent you are just kidding yourself. I think that most tests have shown that it is petty effective. Cloth masks, not so much. And when your mask fogs up your glasses, you know that air and airborne particles are escaping your mask. With regards to the mandates, these "rules" should be coming from the legislatures of the states in question. No more governor edicts. There has been plenty of time to do this. Let these politicians from local districts go on record with rules like you can't go to church but you can to a liquor store, as an extreme example. I think it will foster more sane rules. Stupid rules cause citizens to act defiantly (some might say selfishly) and causes nothing but discord.

  6. #81
    Senior Member CaptCaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    Unless you are wearing a N95 mask or equivalent you are just kidding yourself. I think that most tests have shown that it is petty effective. Cloth masks, not so much. And when your mask fogs up your glasses, you know that air and airborne particles are escaping your mask. With regards to the mandates, these "rules" should be coming from the legislatures of the states in question. No more governor edicts. There has been plenty of time to do this. Let these politicians from local districts go on record with rules like you can't go to church but you can to a liquor store, as an extreme example. I think it will foster more sane rules. Stupid rules cause citizens to act defiantly (some might say selfishly) and causes nothing but discord.
    Good thing about hiking which is my most used outdoor activity other then snowmobile's is you can distance more then 6' most of the time. At least were I hike which is less popular trails.

    I was in Chutters candy store in Littleton yesterday and it was packed. But you can't go to church or other things? Like you said "Stupid rules". Whole downton was jamming actually. I could imagine Walmart which we wouldn't even think of going to.

  7. #82
    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    If I learned anything this year with the whole "COVID thing" it's that science, facts and data have no weight in our society anymore. It's all about "what side" you are on and discrediting "the other side". Whether that is with facts, lies or omissions is irrelevant so long as you "win".
    NH 48 4k: 48/48; NH W48k: 48/48; ME 4k: 2/14; VT 4k: 1/5; ADK 46: 6/46; Cat 3.5k 10/35

  8. #83
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocket21 View Post
    The "experts" told us in March that 2.2 million Americans would be dead by August 2020, and that there would be virtually no more deaths come October 2020.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The "experts" also told us in March not to wear a mask. Let us not forget Dr. Fauci on 60 Minutes on March 8, 2020: "There's no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you're in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better, and it might even block a droplet, but it's not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And often, there are unintended consequences, people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face."
    Please stop cherry picking snippets of early theories as information and trying to make a cause for it. Initially people were told they didn't need masks because there was a great fear Ebay survival nuts would buy all the PPE leaving hospitals with none or having to pay a ransom to get it. (States and private people had to go out and buy it overseas, that's sad and certainly not a real leadership position.)

    if you managed not to have to wipe your behind from 3/1 to 5/1 you can say you saw no evidence of panic buying, the rest of us did, do you think masks were going to escape that. If you stayed home during that time, you didn't need a mask. The 2.2M figure was based on if we did absolutely squat, nada zip, zilch, in reaction to the virus. How many seniors, prisoners' and church choirs would have died if things had gone on at the status quo? Likely every states nursing homes would have gone through what the NYC metro area and the home out in WA if we did nothing.

    (early on people thought the earth was flat too, anyone here still believing that also?)
    Last edited by Mike P.; 11-28-2020 at 11:48 AM.
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  9. #84
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    Op-ed in the NY Times Thursday raised some relevant arguments:

    It is all too easy for some to take an idea — in this case, for example, personal freedom — and turn it into an ideology, creating a prism through which they judge everything.

    ...most governments acted responsibly, imposing strict measures to contain the outbreak. Yet some groups protested, refusing to keep their distance, marching against travel restrictions — as if measures that governments must impose for the good of their people constitute some kind of political assault on autonomy or personal freedom! Looking to the common good is much more than the sum of what is good for individuals.
    Last edited by Daniel Eagan; 11-28-2020 at 12:47 PM. Reason: formatting

  10. #85
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    Please stop cherry picking snippets of early theories as information and trying to make a cause for it.
    Hey..... didn't you know even a blind pig finds an acorn in a pile of mud once and awhile. I wouldn't worry to much in putting to much value on anything in this thread. Last time I checked this was a hiking board. Let's get back to discussing something along those lines.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  11. #86
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    Still no science. Still waiting on the science, you know, the hard data, with a control group, double blind studies, anything at all. Bueller? Bueller?

    No, just "experts" parroting other "experts" who are told by a government agency what to say or do. Have you seen what virologists wear to prevent infections? Its a hell of a lot more than a cloth mask. I still maintain that wearing a mask is so that sheep can be easily controlled by the wolves. A fearful society is easily controlled and manipulated.

    The spike in Covid cases mirror school reopenings, which is typical. Anyone with school age children has experienced that phenomena where in the fall, the entire household gets sick because something little Jonny brought home from school. Its happening now with national media attention on Covid. Its no different than any other year. You know what I see in schools? Mask wearing compliance and still a rise in cases.

    People are fatigued with this virus. Its not dying out, its not going away like the experts said would happen if everyone stayed home. From my experience, everyone did stay home all Spring. Nobody was traveling, most people didn't leave their houses. The roads were empty of cars. My commute to work was wonderful. No covid cases until my employer mandated masks at work. People quit washing their hands as often, hand sanitizer use dropped preciptiously. Our facilities manager told me that we are only using 10% of the hand sanitizer we used in April and May. I don't need to wash my hands, I'm wearing a mask.

    Mask wearing mandates didn't work during the Spanish Flu epidemic, either. Its a placebo and a dangerous one, at that.
    Last edited by egilbe; 11-29-2020 at 11:19 AM.

  12. #87
    Senior Member CaptCaper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    If I learned anything this year with the whole "COVID thing" it's that science, facts and data have no weight in our society anymore. It's all about "what side" you are on and discrediting "the other side". Whether that is with facts, lies or omissions is irrelevant so long as you "win".
    What I learned but really already knew was one size shoe doesn't fit all.

  13. #88
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    There's a pretty good and obvious reason why there have been no double blind mask studies...

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    Initially people were told they didn't need masks because there was a great fear Ebay survival nuts would buy all the PPE leaving hospitals with none or having to pay a ransom to get it. (States and private people had to go out and buy it overseas, that's sad and certainly not a real leadership position.)
    In other words, they were lying to us then, but we can trust what they say now?

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocket21 View Post
    In other words, they were lying to us then, but we can trust what they say now?
    Or they are operating on best known data and practices and more is known now. But, also, they weren't wrong. Masks provide little protection to incoming virus and there was a run on PPE.

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