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Thread: Rescue During Lockdown

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    Senior Member dug's Avatar
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    Rescue During Lockdown

    https://www.foxnews.com/great-outdoo...lized-rescuers


    "If you’re going to break the rules, don’t get stuck.

    Two hikers reportedly learned this lesson the hard way when they violated COVID-19 regulations only to get stuck and require help. While the two men were successfully rescued, they were also penalized for violating the restrictions."


    Just imagine that itemized bill. Get whacked for rescue fees AND a Covid violation. Tack on a littering charge for the Cliff bar wrapper and get caught peeing in the woods (public indecency) and that's an expensive hike! (OK, I made up the last two)

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    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    108 man hours of rescue for a 4 hour rescue? Doesn't that equal 27 personnel? And that doesn't count the uninjured hiker, who probably helped out some. Sounds like a lot, no?

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    Senior Member nartreb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    108 man hours of rescue for a 4 hour rescue? Doesn't that equal 27 personnel? And that doesn't count the uninjured hiker, who probably helped out some. Sounds like a lot, no?
    No, not really. Leg injury == carry out == eight or more people at a time carrying the litter, preferably in shifts, so that's 16 to 20 right there. If you're not sure where they are exactly, you might send teams up multiple trails to make sure you find them. Teams of two there, minimum just for scouting, so that would add six to eight. then there's the HQ team: command/oversight/communication/liaison/weather/talking-to-victims-families-for-information - two to four more. Haven't even gotten to ambulance drivers or other people who aren't involved until the rescuers return to the trailhead.

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    Senior Member richard's Avatar
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    That law seems excessive to me ! I understand that they got caught and are being charged for breaking the law. But, how is being out in the woods going to endanger someone else ? Some times these restrictions IMO are like the boy who cried wolf.

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    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richard View Post
    That law seems excessive to me ! I understand that they got caught and are being charged for breaking the law. But, how is being out in the woods going to endanger someone else ? Some times these restrictions IMO are like the boy who cried wolf.
    The UK is in a total lockdown to try and limit the spread of the new/latest strain of Covid-19 which spreads much faster than what we predominately have. (NY, CA, CO have confirmed cases and many others likely though at the moment unconfirmed) Did they stop for breakfast, gas, the loo (keeping the UK theme) or come in contact with anyone else?
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richard View Post
    That law seems excessive to me ! I understand that they got caught and are being charged for breaking the law. But, how is being out in the woods going to endanger someone else ? Some times these restrictions IMO are like the boy who cried wolf.
    Did you really just ask how being in the woods is going to endanger someone else on a story about someone needing to be carried off the mountain?

    Aside from the usual risks of a rescue in non-pandemic times, from the article: "We will always continue to provide the vital MRT service that we are committed to. However, the volunteers assisting the men did feel vulnerable due to the inevitable close contact required and we have to prioritize the health of our members in order to continue to provide this vital service."

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    Senior Member Hillwalker's Avatar
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    I have hiked and climbed in Glen Coe several times over the years and there are some very tough hikes in there. Here is the Aonach Eagach Ridge which runs down the side of Glen Coe. I did this hillwalk solo in 2009 at the age of 70. Fun times!

    There are only two ways off the ridge. Either at the beginning or end. Nothing anywhere along the 11 mile ridge.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DKC...bI6Zp&index=29
    Last edited by Hillwalker; 01-05-2021 at 09:13 AM. Reason: add info

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    Quote Originally Posted by richard View Post
    how is being out in the woods going to endanger someone else ?
    Albert Dow 1982.

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    Senior Member DayTrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillwalker View Post
    I have hiked and climbed in Glen Coe several times over the years and there are some very tough hikes in there. Here is the Aonach Eagach Ridge which runs down the side of Glen Coe. I did this hillwalk solo in 2009 at the age of 70. Fun times!

    There are only two ways off the ridge. Either at the beginning or end. Nothing anywhere along the 11 mile ridge.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DKC...bI6Zp&index=29
    Oh my God does that look amazing! The hiking there does look incredible.
    “Sometimes when you’ve lost something in your life that matters, the only thing left to do is go and find it.” Renan Ozturk

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    Senior Member Hillwalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DayTrip View Post
    Oh my God does that look amazing! The hiking there does look incredible.
    My wife introduced me to Scotland back around 1998 during one of her lecture series trips to Edinboro. While she talked, I walked and fell in love with the place. I love hiking above treeline but am very susceptible to HAPE due to lung injuries incurred during my little 1968-69 participation in the US Vietnam war games. (We came in second by the way) So hiking much above 10,000 feet can be risky for me. Anyway in Scotland, almost everything is above tree line. There are only 9 summits above 4000 feet. If that sounds like really low mountains, consider this. Many Scottish mountains feet are just at or slightly above sea level. Therefore, although the summits may not be very much above sea level, the climbs up are pretty decent in elevation gain. The Scottish equivalent of our 4000 footers are the Scottish Munros named after the man who in 1891 first enumerated the list of summits over 3000 feet in elevation. Check out "tom hillwalker wheeler" on YouTube if you have some spare time.

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    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Murphy View Post
    Albert Dow 1982.
    The hikers that Albert Dow died attempting to save were not just "out in the woods". They were in over their heads in horrendous winter weather and mistakenly headed into the Great Gulf due to disorientation and lack of knowledge of the terrain.

    I don't think somebody out hiking in normal conditions on normal terrain is endangering anybody's life. Sure, you can fall and require assistance, but in normal conditions this should not endanger anybody's life. I am not talking about technical climbing. You should, however, always try to self rescue. And, if you do venture out in poor conditions or on technical terrain, then you are putting yourself and others at risk, in the event of an emergency rescue.
    Last edited by maineguy; 01-05-2021 at 11:33 AM.

  12. #12
    Moderator David Metsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    I don't think somebody out hiking in normal conditions on normal terrain is endangering anybody's life.
    Exposing someone to COVID-19 is endangering someone's life. Yes, lots of things we do could lead to EMTs being called. But a backcountry rescue places responders at long term exposure in ways that a front country rescue does not.

    Yes, the likelihood of needing a rescue is low, and the likelihood of transmitting the disease is possibly low, but it's not zero.
    You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself, any direction you choose. -- Dr. Seuss

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    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Metsky View Post
    Exposing someone to COVID-19 is endangering someone's life. Yes, lots of things we do could lead to EMTs being called. But a backcountry rescue places responders at long term exposure in ways that a front country rescue does not.

    Yes, the likelihood of needing a rescue is low, and the likelihood of transmitting the disease is possibly low, but it's not zero.
    Exactly. And when the dust settles those rescuers go home to wives, kids, parents, and co-workers at their real jobs.

    If you are gonna breach lockdown restrictions have the balls to get yourself out of any trouble you get in. Period. No save my ass cell call allowed.
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    Senior Member Nessmuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    Exactly. And when the dust settles those rescuers go home to wives, kids, parents, and co-workers at their real jobs.

    If you are gonna breach lockdown restrictions have the balls to get yourself out of any trouble you get in. Period. No save my ass cell call allowed.
    As I was growing up, the rule of best practices said that if you get "mixed up' or "lost" in the woods, then you sit down, have a sandwich, look at your map and figure out what you did to get where you are and make plans to get yourself out. Have some skill in self-preservation. Even the Boy Scouts taught the same at the time. But now, the "god and savior of the cell phone" is always at hand. If confused, just call to get rescued, no need to attempt any well thought out self-rescue. The NYS rangers have averaged nearly one rescue per day over the past year (346 in 2018, 223 in 2007), with many concentrated on weekends.

    As a long time trained SAR crew boss volunteer myself, I do not mind (and look forward to) getting the call for bona fide rescues, and I always enjoy the challenge of going into the woods to help people, but would rather not be bothered with foolishness or failure to properly plan, prepare, and think clearly. Especially in the time of coved.
    "She's all my fancy painted her, she's lovely, she is light. She waltzes on the waves by day and rests with me at night." - Nessmuk, Forest and Stream, July 21, 1880 [of the Wood Drake Canoe built for him by Rushton]

  15. #15
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillwalker View Post
    My wife introduced me to Scotland back around 1998 during one of her lecture series trips to Edinboro. While she talked, I walked and fell in love with the place. I love hiking above treeline but am very susceptible to HAPE due to lung injuries incurred during my little 1968-69 participation in the US Vietnam war games. (We came in second by the way) So hiking much above 10,000 feet can be risky for me. Anyway in Scotland, almost everything is above tree line. There are only 9 summits above 4000 feet. If that sounds like really low mountains, consider this. Many Scottish mountains feet are just at or slightly above sea level. Therefore, although the summits may not be very much above sea level, the climbs up are pretty decent in elevation gain. The Scottish equivalent of our 4000 footers are the Scottish Munros named after the man who in 1891 first enumerated the list of summits over 3000 feet in elevation. Check out "tom hillwalker wheeler" on YouTube if you have some spare time.
    The UK high point, Ben Nevis just over 4400 feet is their equivalent to Mt. Washington, a low peak (relatively) with many deaths due to being near population and very tricky weather influenced by Atlantic and North Sea storms.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

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