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Thread: Tecumseh out, Guyot in?

  1. #16
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    With respect to Guyot's high points it reminds me of the Kinsmans debate, if in doubt visit both since its highly likely that a hiker will be walking past both of them.

  2. #17
    Moderator bikehikeskifish's Avatar
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    Playing with GaiaGPS and waypoints on South Guyot (Bondcliff Trail) shows the highest point at 4531' vs 4563' on Guyot (Twinway). Not that GaiaGPS is definitive, but I think there is little doubt which summit is officially higher - the problem is where is the cairn and will its inclusion on the 48 mean people trample the other peak looking for the highest rock?

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  3. #18
    Senior Member JustJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikehikeskifish View Post
    Playing with GaiaGPS and waypoints on South Guyot (Bondcliff Trail) shows the highest point at 4531' vs 4563' on Guyot (Twinway). Not that GaiaGPS is definitive, but I think there is little doubt which summit is officially higher - the problem is where is the cairn and will its inclusion on the 48 mean people trample the other peak looking for the highest rock?

    Tim
    Trailwrights lists Guyot at 4580. No idea where their data came from.
    Joe

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustJoe View Post
    Trailwrights lists Guyot at 4580. No idea where their data came from.
    I think they interpolate the USGS 40' contours.

  5. #20
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    It's conversations like this where you can appreciate the wisdom of the 46ers...

  6. #21
    Senior Member Grey J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustJoe View Post
    This is not an exact science, visual that is. But Guyot does appear to be higher that S Guyot. Optimistic prominence is one thing. But not being a 4000 footer is something else.

    Looking back to Guyot from S. Guyot.

    Do other people see Joe's photo here? I just see a blank screen and a minus sign.

    PS I' not arguing that South Guyot is higher, merely that my perception at the time was that the two spots appeared roughly equal and that South Guyot felt more "peak-like."
    "I am a pilgrim and a stranger"

  7. #22
    Senior Member Rhody Seth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    It's conversations like this where you can appreciate the wisdom of the 46ers...
    As I've gotten older I've become more accepting of the inevitability of change so I find this topic fascinating. I am (very slowly) chipping away at the Grid and it was always nice having Tecumseh as a Sunday morning option before driving south. What's the policy for those mid-Grid if a change to the 4ks occurs?

  8. #23
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhody Seth View Post
    As I've gotten older I've become more accepting of the inevitability of change so I find this topic fascinating. I am (very slowly) chipping away at the Grid and it was always nice having Tecumseh as a Sunday morning option before driving south. What's the policy for those mid-Grid if a change to the 4ks occurs?
    You have to start over...

  9. #24
    Senior Member SpencerVT's Avatar
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    There are soooo many peaks that should come off the ADK 46. That is the most artificially inflated list ever.
    Look at Emmons for example, not even close to 200’ of prominence. There are plenty of others too.
    South Hancock is ridiculous and should come off NH.
    Unless these lists want to say: “The mountains traditionally considered over 4000 feet” - That would be acceptable.
    Spencer
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  10. #25
    Senior Member JustJoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey J View Post
    Do other people see Joe's photo here? I just see a blank screen and a minus sign.

    PS I' not arguing that South Guyot is higher, merely that my perception at the time was that the two spots appeared roughly equal and that South Guyot felt more "peak-like."
    This is something new that I've been hearing lately, Have no idea why that is all of a sudden.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Joe

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustJoe View Post
    This is something new that I've been hearing lately, Have no idea why that is all of a sudden.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I think the photo in your original post is the first one you have posted that has actually displayed for me.

  12. #27
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpencerVT View Post
    There are soooo many peaks that should come off the ADK 46. That is the most artificially inflated list ever.
    Look at Emmons for example, not even close to 200’ of prominence. There are plenty of others too.
    South Hancock is ridiculous and should come off NH.
    Unless these lists want to say: “The mountains traditionally considered over 4000 feet” - That would be acceptable.
    Well, that is exactly what the 46 are....the mountains climbed by the Marshall brothers and Herb Clark believed to be at least 4000 feet.
    Last edited by maineguy; 02-09-2021 at 11:59 AM.

  13. #28
    Senior Member TCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    Well, that is exactly what the 46 are....the mountains climbed by the Marshall brothers and Herb Clark believed to be at least 4000 feet.
    That's right.

    >I know we all talked about this already in some earlier thread that I can't find right now.

    >I know there is a lot of research published about how the Marshall's came up with the list, and how it changed over some years as various people persuaded the Marshalls to make changes prior to publishing it.

    The list of peaks was published in 1927, and has not been changed since then. The 46ers became organized in 1936, and used the fixed, existing list. The list is kept the same as a tradition. Sure, Blake, Nye, Couch, and Cliff are under 4K, and MacNaughton (not on the list) is 4K. But the 46ers would rather hike the existing list, and enjoy the tradition, than quibble over various survey findings. (But to each their own interest, I guess...)
    Last edited by TCD; 02-09-2021 at 07:16 PM.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Salty's Avatar
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    At least a couple analyses of the recently published (last year) LiDAR data shows:

    Tecumseh: <4k
    Guyot: Has >200' prominence in all cols
    S. Hancock/Lincoln: Lacks 200' prominence

    I have the data somewhere which shows which Guyot is higher, I'll have to remember to look it up.

  15. #30
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    It seems as far as New Hampshire is concerned most of the Peaks listed, delisted, or a matter of debate are incidental to not all but most hikes anyhow. So really what’s the big deal? For instance who is just going to go hike Guyout without doing at least one of the Bonds or Twins. Not that this is an ironclad argument but why not. I’m mean really. Carter Dome is on the list but why not throw in Mt. Height while your at it if your doing the 4’s. Back when Bond Cliff was not on the list most of us had already done it anyhow if you were well on your way peakbagging. OK not much going on at Tecumseh but the hike over the Sosman Trail has the best views on the Mountain. Point is there is lots of good stuff to be had whether it is on some list or not.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

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