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Thread: Wow, this a trip report for the books!

  1. #91
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nartreb View Post
    That was me. https://www.summitpost.org/extending...mi-loop/311203

    Sorry for the self-promotion and thread diversion, but I figure it's de minimis after page 4 of a thread...
    I remember those reports with McRat and other of the 90's crew, The 8:15 start was a bit late, my two attempts started at 3:30 and 4:30. One trip in each direction and both times down Twin Brook. On the Counter Clock when I reached S. Twin which was my 2nd trip, I knew Garfield and up Lafayette wasn't happening so I did the easy trip to North Twin and Galehead. Re-reading your trip made me think heading down Twin Brook was the right choice for me.
    Last edited by Mike P.; 03-03-2021 at 09:49 AM.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  2. #92
    Senior Member nartreb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfb View Post
    Not a thread diversion at all. Just a good example of the type of unexpected event we should all be prepared for. No serious injuries, just got back later than planned.
    Of course, I wasn't particularly well-prepared. No bivy equipment to speak of, lackadaisical preparation (lack of fitness and, notably, failure to carefully study the map in advance, with regard to bailout options), late start, terrible food/water management -- plenty of suboptimal decisions in addition to the usual speed-vs-equipment tradeoff, and some of those decisions compounded each other. It was no big deal in the end because a) I did manage to get off the ridgeline while preserving a sufficient margin of energy, warmth, and wits and b) summer conditions were fairly benign -- even weathering the storm above treeline probably wouldn't have killed me.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by nartreb View Post
    Of course, I wasn't particularly well-prepared. No bivy equipment to speak of, lackadaisical preparation (lack of fitness and, notably, failure to carefully study the map in advance, with regard to bailout options), late start, terrible food/water management -- plenty of suboptimal decisions in addition to the usual speed-vs-equipment tradeoff, and some of those decisions compounded each other. It was no big deal in the end because a) I did manage to get off the ridgeline while preserving a sufficient margin of energy, warmth, and wits and b) summer conditions were fairly benign -- even weathering the storm above treeline probably wouldn't have killed me.
    I probably would have carried an extra sweater, spent the night at the Garfield shelter and finished the next day.

  4. #94
    Senior Member B the Hiker's Avatar
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    I suspect not one person's opinion has changed an iota from this dialogue, and it is what it is. A member of the party that had someone slide down the Tripyramids South Slide wrote the folowing:

    This story is going to make it on here on way or another, so might as well be me. I was one of the "hiking companions" mentioned in the story. A few extra details below, but first, this: I always carry emergency gear with me during the winter. I can’t count the number of times a passing hiker asks me “camping out tonight?” because my bag appears full. Nobody plans to get hurt (we certainly didn’t this day) but you can be prepared in the event someone does get hurt (yourself or another hiker). The margin for error is so low in winter – being immobilized can mean a night on the trail, which can mean death. Between the three of us, we carried: snowshoes (worn), strap-on crampons, ice axes, 2 sleeping bags (a 0⁰ and a 20⁰), 3 sleeping pads, emergency layers (bivy parka), a stove/fuel, a length of rope and a bivy bag. My hiking companions and I are AMC Winter Hiking leaders, lead winter hiking trips with large groups relatively often and carry this kind of gear on every hike.


    From the NHF&G accident report:

    "The group was well equipped and had all the winter mountaineering gear that would be expected for a hike in winter conditions."

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by B the Hiker View Post
    I suspect not one person's opinion has changed an iota from this dialogue, and it is what it is. A member of the party that had someone slide down the Tripyramids South Slide wrote the folowing:

    This story is going to make it on here on way or another, so might as well be me. I was one of the "hiking companions" mentioned in the story. A few extra details below, but first, this: I always carry emergency gear with me during the winter. I can’t count the number of times a passing hiker asks me “camping out tonight?” because my bag appears full. Nobody plans to get hurt (we certainly didn’t this day) but you can be prepared in the event someone does get hurt (yourself or another hiker). The margin for error is so low in winter – being immobilized can mean a night on the trail, which can mean death. Between the three of us, we carried: snowshoes (worn), strap-on crampons, ice axes, 2 sleeping bags (a 0⁰ and a 20⁰), 3 sleeping pads, emergency layers (bivy parka), a stove/fuel, a length of rope and a bivy bag. My hiking companions and I are AMC Winter Hiking leaders, lead winter hiking trips with large groups relatively often and carry this kind of gear on every hike.


    From the NHF&G accident report:

    "The group was well equipped and had all the winter mountaineering gear that would be expected for a hike in winter conditions."
    Why not start another thread? My GF and I talked about this incident yesterday when we were hiking up Pleasant Mountain in Denmark/Bridgton. The only think I can think to criticize is standing too close to the edge of the slide. There's a reason I stay 10 feet away from edges if I can.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by B the Hiker View Post
    "The group was well equipped and had all the winter mountaineering gear that would be expected for a hike in winter conditions."
    If two sleeping bags and a bivy parka were acceptable for three hikers, then I conclude that a bivy parka is equivalent to a sleeping bag.

  7. #97
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfb View Post
    If two sleeping bags and a bivy parka were acceptable for three hikers, then I conclude that a bivy parka is equivalent to a sleeping bag.
    How about a happy medium: A good parka plus pair of down pants that zip into an elephant foot (half Bag).

    I've spent a many happy nights in the Tetons and Alps in this rig, but not in New England winter.
    Nobody told me there'd be days like these
    Strange days indeed -- most peculiar, mama
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  8. #98
    Senior Member B the Hiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    Why not start another thread?
    Because the endless posting of accident reports is certainly fun for the bored individual who gets to do it first, but we never get to address a larger issue, as we are doing here. These three people had a pad each, and enough bags for an injured person, a non-injured person staying with him, and a stove to keep them warm and hydrated while the third left the cellphone dead zone to get help. That is what "adequate" looks like.

    JFB wrote, "If two sleeping bags and a bivy parka were acceptable for three hikers, then I conclude that a bivy parka is equivalent to a sleeping bag." They had a pad for an injured person, a sleeping bag for an injured person, and a stove. If you are hiking alone, and you will be the injured person, that means you should be carrying a pad, a sleeping bag, and a stove. Since you are now injured and cannot move, and may be in a cellphone dead zone, I hope you are carrying a SPOT as well. I am not certain how you can read what they wrote and conclude anything less, unless you are rationalizing.

  9. #99
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B the Hiker View Post
    Because the endless posting of accident reports is certainly fun for the bored individual who gets to do it first, but we never get to address a larger issue, as we are doing here. These three people had a pad each, and enough bags for an injured person, a non-injured person staying with him, and a stove to keep them warm and hydrated while the third left the cellphone dead zone to get help. That is what "adequate" looks like.

    JFB wrote, "If two sleeping bags and a bivy parka were acceptable for three hikers, then I conclude that a bivy parka is equivalent to a sleeping bag." They had a pad for an injured person, a sleeping bag for an injured person, and a stove. If you are hiking alone, and you will be the injured person, that means you should be carrying a pad, a sleeping bag, and a stove. Since you are now injured and cannot move, and may be in a cellphone dead zone, I hope you are carrying a SPOT as well. I am not certain how you can read what they wrote and conclude anything less, unless you are rationalizing.
    Crampons on sitting in the armchair so I can play armchair hiker....

    In an emergency, could you have got two people in a sleeping bag? Probably, warm but very uncomfortable. SAR said they had all the gear so I'm good with that and other than the injured hiker who was rescued, there was no mention in the F&G report of others needing treatment due to being out longer than planned or stationary while not hiking.

    We never have enough information to get every question answered.

    Like:
    was our 69 year old over his head/past his prime for descending part of the slide in order to get to the Kate Sleeper junction? (Chomp and I went up the south slide decades ago in mid-December and when a small group from here did the Tri's in actual winter we did Sabbaday and out the way you came in.) We continue to see a few people go down Flume Slide in winter in the trail conditions reports and they make it, I'm not saying the South Tri Slide is not doable and considering you lowered the injured hiker that way and no one got hurt, it's obviously doable. It's still a pretty exposed place, any slip or bad foot placement ends like this or worse.

    Was our 69 year old hiker tired and therefore a little sloppy? At that point, after all the climbing, he may have been a little lax in stepping firmly into the ice or maybe the ice was just covered by a little snow and an unknown hazard? what was the footwear, Snowshoes, Micro's or Crampons? With the sun the South Slide gets, it's likely to have more melting and freezing and therefore more ice that the wooded sections of the trip.

    Again, I don't think there is anything really to look at with the slight, possible exception of doing a trip they once did and no longer can do/should do. (If he's really active and in good shape, I'm wrong.) Wishing Rob a speedy recovery!
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    How about a happy medium: A good parka plus pair of down pants that zip into an elephant foot (half Bag).

    I've spent a many happy nights in the Tetons and Alps in this rig, but not in New England winter.
    I think a sleeping bag with arms and legs would be a good compromise.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by B the Hiker View Post
    I am not certain how you can read what they wrote and conclude anything less, unless you are rationalizing.
    I'll admit that I might be rationalizing and someday may regret not carrying a sleeping bag and stove.

    Here's a gear list from the AMC, and another from NH Fish and Game: Note that the sleeping bag, foam pad, stove and shelter are recommended for groups: https://www.outdoors.org/trip-ideas-...ter-gear-guide, https://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/out...ng-safety.html
    Last edited by jfb; 03-16-2021 at 08:27 AM.

  12. #102
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfb View Post
    I think a sleeping bag with arms and legs would be a good compromise.
    I think that's called a down suit. You can see one on display upstairs at IME.
    Nobody told me there'd be days like these
    Strange days indeed -- most peculiar, mama
    .

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post

    I've spent a many happy nights in the Tetons
    Can you find your name on any of these summit registers?

    http://www.tetonclimbinghistory.com

  14. #104
    Junior Member Mitts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B the Hiker View Post
    Because the endless posting of accident reports is certainly fun for the bored individual who gets to do it first, but we never get to address a larger issue, as we are doing here. These three people had a pad each, and enough bags for an injured person, a non-injured person staying with him, and a stove to keep them warm and hydrated while the third left the cellphone dead zone to get help. That is what "adequate" looks like.

    JFB wrote, "If two sleeping bags and a bivy parka were acceptable for three hikers, then I conclude that a bivy parka is equivalent to a sleeping bag." They had a pad for an injured person, a sleeping bag for an injured person, and a stove. If you are hiking alone, and you will be the injured person, that means you should be carrying a pad, a sleeping bag, and a stove. Since you are now injured and cannot move, and may be in a cellphone dead zone, I hope you are carrying a SPOT as well. I am not certain how you can read what they wrote and conclude anything less, unless you are rationalizing.
    Agreed. Well put.

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