Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 117

Thread: Redlining racist?

  1. #91
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,166
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    Question:

    Did you climb Denali or McKinley? Did you hike Baxter Peak or Kathadin?

    Again I ask, What's the big deal with a name change if it addresses an historical wrong?
    I think the murder of William McKinley was a pretty big 'historical wrong.'

    Ironically some of the same folks in this cancel mob were against renaming Mt. Clay a few years ago, because he was 'The Great Compromiser.' One of his greatest compromises being the creation of the Fugitive Slave Law. But apparently, that's less offensive than a primary color and geometry as related to a hiking map.
    Last edited by rocket21; 03-06-2021 at 04:42 AM.

  2. #92
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Lewiston, and Biddeford Maine
    Posts
    797
    I prefer the indigenous people's names of the mountains. It gives the land character, that not I, nor my northern European ancestors, were the first to walk these hills and valleys.


    death marches was also used by the Nazis when they were evacuating their Eastern slave camps before they fell to the Russians. They walked the survivors West in January and February until they dropped. Another instance of genocide and death marches

  3. #93
    Senior Member ChrisB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    NH 1,000 Highest
    Posts
    1,189
    Quote Originally Posted by Hachi View Post
    I may be looking at this too simplistically, but it seems to me that we are talking about two different things, racism seen as a personal act, and racism as an institution. Most of us have anecdotal experiences of personal acts, and don't believe we conscientiously act in a manner that could be considered racist. I think what TEO is talking about is the systematic racism that exists in education, criminal justice, housing, healthcare, etc.

    I found this helpful in the light of this conversation.

    https://www.nlc.org/article/2020/07/...n-anti-racist/
    This is an important distinction Hachi makes here about institutional racism.

    Race has played a subtle role for most of us starting with the neighborhoods we grew up in, the schools we attended, the health care we received, the jobs we had, the home and business loans we qualified for, where we now reside, and on and on. So letís just acknowledge our good fortune and work to level the playing field for others.

    As an old white guy I am not threatened by doing this nor do I feel disenfranchised. Iíve been increditably lucky. Time to share the good fortune.
    Nobody told me there'd be days like these
    Strange days indeed -- most peculiar, mama
    .

  4. #94
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,166
    Interesting to see how history is changing before our very eyes...

    March 6, 2021:


    March 6, 2011:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	redlining030621.jpg 
Views:	445 
Size:	104.7 KB 
ID:	6625   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	redlining030611.jpg 
Views:	453 
Size:	106.7 KB 
ID:	6626  

  5. #95
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by TEO View Post
    Nope, not in jest. I think that most of us who aren't familiar with the of the common, day-to-day experiences of people of color, have no idea what racism looks like. And, because the New England and upstate New York are overwhelmingly homogeneous, we rarely are confronted with our own prejudices.
    There you go again....pushing the narrative..Why do you feel the need to "categorize" people..seems odd with the topic at hand.If we are ever to get anywhere with race relations,a good starting point would be to look at people as individuals.....call me crazy.You cannot assume what's in people's heart.

    .........homogeneous?......how presumptuous of you.....thank you

  6. #96
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    2,909
    Quote Originally Posted by cragway View Post
    There you go again....pushing the narrative..Why do you feel the need to "categorize" people..seems odd with the topic at hand.If we are ever to get anywhere with race relations,a good starting point would be to look at people as individuals.....call me crazy.You cannot assume what's in people's heart.

    .........homogeneous?......how presumptuous of you.....thank you
    Well said. I agree.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  7. #97
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    2,909
    Quote Originally Posted by TEO View Post
    I would encourage you to take the tests here: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implici...touchtest.html. Try to answer the test questions as quickly as possible.

    Keep in mind, to recognize our own prejudices is not saying that we are a bad people.
    Sorry I'm not creating an account with what just seems like another place to facilitate yet more liberal narcissism.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  8. #98
    Senior Member Grey J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Chattanooga TN
    Posts
    541
    This has been an interesting (if occasionally contentious) discussion especially considering the position that I've taken. Most of the time I would be on the other side. I would like to see each and every Confederate monument in the US removed from public space. I hope they change the name of Fort Bragg and the other forts named after traitors. I lobbied in favor of changing the names of the Washington and Kansas City football teams and the Cleveland and Atlanta baseball teams as far back as 20 years ago and I have been appalled by the Cleveland mascot since I was a boy.

    I think Denali and Kathadian are far better names for their respective mountains and more appropriate names as well. I would not be opposed to renaming Washington as Agiocochook. But I just don't see the problem with this word. The red-lining that hikers do is not racist. The word itself happens to have multiple meanings. The offended parties appear to be intentionally ignoring the context. There's enough trouble and hard feelings in this world that we shouldn't go around looking to create more especially where none existed and none was intended. For the record, when I briefly followed this practice, I chose a green felt tip pen. It just felt right. Peace, out.
    Last edited by Grey J; 03-06-2021 at 07:21 PM. Reason: redundancy
    "I am a pilgrim and a stranger"

  9. #99
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Stamford, VT
    Posts
    1,454
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey J View Post
    But I just don't see the problem with this word. The red-lining that hikers do is not racist. The word itself happens to have multiple meanings. The offended parties appear to be intentionally ignoring the context.
    I don't understand how preventing hikers from using the term redlining will solve any of the problems that racism has caused.

  10. #100
    Senior Member dave.m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bahston
    Posts
    686
    Quote Originally Posted by jfb View Post
    I don't understand how preventing hikers from using the term redlining will solve any of the problems that racism has caused.
    Correct. It won't.

    I think it's correct to avoid using terms that evoke memories of actual deep harm. We accept that it would be offensive to refer to a lopsided sports victory as a lynching. This is similar in overtone.

    But correct language doesn't stop the economic oppression of actual red-lining.

    If we want to confront the economic structures that cause racial oppression, we'll need to ask who sets the policies. But we know the answer to that. Policies track with will of the top 5% - the economic elite who control both parties. IME, the white rural poor understand very well that economic elites are screwing them too, so they correctly understand that core problem isn't racism.

    At some point, poor and working people in both parties will understand that they share a common struggle.

    @TEO, I almost agreed with post. Better to say that white America is capitalist, not racist. Capitalism can't work with out economic oppression and economic oppression is what drives racism, as well as patriarchy and environmental destruction.

    @JFB, total agreement. Talking about words isn't addressing the core issue.
    Last edited by dave.m; 03-06-2021 at 06:21 PM.
    - Dave (a.k.a. pinnah)

    " Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat." - John Lehman, US Secretary of the Navy 1981-1987

  11. #101
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by dave.m View Post
    But correct language doesn't stop the economic oppression of actual red-lining.
    Exactly. Correct language is useless without action. And most of us, myself included, have no idea what the action we could take to afford a real change.

  12. #102
    Senior Member dave.m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bahston
    Posts
    686
    Quote Originally Posted by Hachi View Post
    Exactly. Correct language is useless without action. And most of us, myself included, have no idea what the action we could take to afford a real change.
    Organize. Organize like mad.
    - Dave (a.k.a. pinnah)

    " Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat." - John Lehman, US Secretary of the Navy 1981-1987

  13. #103
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    625
    With apologies to the evil Dr. S.


    I do not like redlining and ham
    I do not like them, "---" I am

    I do not like them when I smoke
    I do not like them when they're spoke
    Especially when I'm striving to be the most woke

    Not in banking, not in housing,
    Not in social media mingling
    But mostly not when I'm tediously virtue-signalling

    I do not like redlining and ham
    I do not like them, "---" I am
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Trip pictures

  14. #104
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    184
    It's interesting that we are talking about respecting the experiences of some other groups that are outside our own, but have ignored the part of the discussion regarding use of lands considered sacred by earlier inhabitants. Many mountains of the world, including Agiocochook, have aboriginal names that mean something like Home of God. Yet, we go ahead and tread on them without thought to what we are doing to what those may continue to mean to those people. Is it just because they are among the least of the complaining groups, or maybe that the "transgression" began so long ago in many cases, that we don't take much of that into consideration (with a few worldwide exclusions)?

    Should we exclude those places from our trampling, or do we just say that it's ok because there aren't many people affected, or it has become too accepted? I don't have an answer, but it seemed like a reasonable extension of the discussion regarding the term redlining in this context. Should aboriginal sacred places be removed from lists? Is anyone willing to not hike Mt. Washington or Katahdin to support the sacredness that these places held in the lives of many before this time (and possibly/likely some living today)?

    I don't have the answer, and I have ascended some of these peaks, but I thought that it was worth discussion along with the redlining topic.
    It's a lot like fun, but different.

  15. #105
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Colchester, CT
    Posts
    3,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    With apologies to the evil Dr. S.


    I do not like redlining and ham
    I do not like them, "---" I am

    I do not like them when I smoke
    I do not like them when they're spoke
    Especially when I'm striving to be the most woke

    Not in banking, not in housing,
    Not in social media mingling
    But mostly not when I'm tediously virtue-signalling

    I do not like redlining and ham
    I do not like them, "---" I am
    First, it was the foundation that oversees the Dr. Suess Foundation that offered to pull the 6 books. Six of many. The depiction of the African natives was problematic, native headdress, enlarged lips, semi clothed, It was drawn around the same time as Disney's Song of the South.

    Schools and the BSA is looking at no longer using Indian names for their council names and school mascots.

    In I believe, Oh the Places you will go or Mulberry Street, the Chinese man was drawn in a stereotypical fashion. Dr. Suess lasted much longer than John Wayne did (Whoever is in charge of running El Dorado on Cable TV. The scene where James Caan gets ready to sneak into the back of the saloon and he shows John Wayne how his "disguise" is no longer left in the movie on cable.
    Have fun & be safe
    Mike P.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •