Winter 46er list

Here is the updated list of Winter 46ers. There were 19 new Winter 46ers recorded last winter. If you finished your Winter 46 and aren't on the list, get your climbing list to the 46er Historian.

Since the turn of the century, Winter Climbing sure has grown. Exactly 100 more added to the list. Wow! I guess I should of waited a few more years, it might had been easier for me!!

Skyclimber2971w said:

Since the turn of the century, Winter Climbing sure has grown. Exactly 100 more added to the list. Wow! I guess I should of waited a few more years, it might had been easier for me!!

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Look at it this way. The first hundred took 30 years.

The real increase started in the 90's Look at the number finishing each decade:

6 1960
18 1970
45 1980
140 1990
100 2000

Almost triples each decade. By 2009, I predict there will be 400 fr the decade.

Ya, but a decade of the 2000's hasn't even finished yet, there is still five years to go! Maybe another 100 people will finish in that amount of time. It's gotten much easier to achieve this goal, then many years ago, when breaking trail was a necessity on just about every peak.
But then the Summer Forty-Six is much easier than 50 years ago too! So I guess it may even out.

Skyclimber2971w said:

Ya, but a decade of the 2000's hasn't even finished yet, there is still five years to go! Maybe another 100 people will finish in that amount of time. It's gotten much easier to achieve this goal, then many years ago, when breaking trail was a necessity on just about every peak.
But then the Summer Forty-Six is much easier than 50 years ago too! So I guess it may even out.

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Actually the early 46ers had great terrain for all the trailless peaks until the big hurricane in the 50's. After the great fires and logging, many summits were delightful strolls through open woods. Except for when you ran into cripplebrush though. Fires or loggers can't even beat that stuff.

I think the big advantage we have now is the internet.
Knowing what's busted out, and the conditions, makes it easier to get the longer less traveled peaks in winter.

No doubt about it though, it's still no easy task, it's the Adirondacks!

NYBRAD said:

I think the big advantage we have now is the internet.
Knowing what's busted out, and the conditions, makes it easier to get the longer less traveled peaks in winter.

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The biggest thing is if the trail is broken or not. I'll never forget what happened several years ago... sometime after Floyd, when Allen was hard to get. One (winter) day, someone had posted something saying that the allen trail was broken, and it was easy to follow. The number of cars at that trailhead the following weekend was unbelievable.

Pete_Hickey said:

The biggest thing is if the trail is broken or not. I'll never forget what happened several years ago... sometime after Floyd, when Allen was hard to get. One (winter) day, someone had posted something saying that the allen trail was broken, and it was easy to follow. The number of cars at that trailhead the following weekend was unbelievable.

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Could it be that the "problem" (if it is a "problem" at all) is not with improved media for exchanging information, but with the compulsive urge peakbaggers have to check summits off on their lists? A chicken-egg thing?

Just a thought . . .

G.

Even before the internet folks would get their hands on the RWMS schedule (its mailed out in November so that one can sign up for trips) and then follow the broken out path on Sunday or Monday!

Grumpy said:

Could it be that the "problem" (if it is a "problem" at all) is not with improved media for exchanging information, but with the compulsive urge peakbaggers have to check summits off on their lists? A chicken-egg thing?

Just a thought . . .

G.

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I'm not totally sure it's confined to hikers. Last February, I had posted some info (not sure if it was here or elsewhere) about setting up a hike up Lewey Mountain (a lesser ADK100 peak in the Indian Lake area) and we had settled on a particular day. A couple people that lived near the trailhead and had nothing better to do the day before and offered to "break out" the first 2 miles of the way along Sucker Brook Trail for us (which was WAY cool of them I might add).

Now this is a pretty remotely used trail, but it leads to a "Height of land" between Lewey and Cellar peak that would have to be pretty cool to ski. The next day, when we signed-in, we noted with interest that the "trail breaking" party the day before was the first group to sign in for over a month, but there were 2 seperate groups of skiers that signed in right after them (in the afternoon) citing the "height of land" as thier destination. It seems obvious that these skiers, who we did not know, had "heard" about the fact that the trail would be opened (through the internet) and took advantage of it.

Also, I received an e-mail later that week from someone that "thanked us" for the "broken out" trail to the top of Lewey, as he used it several days later to grab this summit. Mind you, this is NOT a popular peak (for good reason), but when you read "the trail is open", people will take advantage. Look at the Pin Pin followers there are all winter, hell,if I had that many people following me, I'd get nervious

Actually, for that and other past things, I'm becoming MUCH more careful about posting "where I'm going" or even "where I've been". It's sad, but you NEVER know who is seeing it and what they are doing with the info.

p.s. there are places, you just have to look for them

I totally agree with you, Tim. On a Winter Climb to the Sewards several years back, a friend posted on the Internet of our planned climb. When we pulled into Corey's, the parking lot was full. Thought this was great, a broken trail through the Seward Range. Just to have seventeen people standing there, half from the Internet, announcing they were with our group. Needless to say, the other half were eventually "left behind" as we forwarded on to complete our hike, in which we made all 3 that day.

Same happened on Allen. Others followed behind us, "stealing" the peak and totally unwilling to help break trail, when they caught up. After we endured eight hours of trail breaking to the summit in 2-3 feet of snow and still had 2 hours left to reach the peak.

It's happened on several other occasions too. Best to keep such information to one's self. We learned the hard way.

Skyclimber2971w said:

I totally agree with you, Tim. On a Winter Climb to the Sewards several years back, a friend posted on the Internet of our planned climb. When we pulled into Corey's, the parking lot was full. Thought this was great, a broken trail through the Seward Range. Just to have seventeen people standing there, half from the Internet, announcing they were with our group. Needless to say, the other half were eventually "left behind" as we forwarded on to complete our hike, in which we made all 3 that day.

Same happened on Allen. Others followed behind us, "stealing" the peak and totally unwilling to help break trail, when they caught up. After we endured eight hours of trail breaking to the summit in 2-3 feet of snow and still had 2 hours left to reach the peak.

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I can understand being annoyed with party crashers who show up and announce they are going to join you, uninvited. I can readily understand being annoyed at someone who attaches himself to your group but declines to help out with breaking trail. I even can appreciate that having a lot of company (even dispersed company that doesn't hitch up to your party) when you hoped for a less crowded trail might be disappointing.

What I don't get, though, is how the how the thought (or actuality) of someone else learning about and using a trail you (or anyone else) broke out (after the fact) diminishes your own experience in any way. Or can reasonably be viewed as an annoyance. But then, maybe I've missed something here.

G.

Grumpy said:

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What I don't get, though, is how the how the thought (or actuality) of someone else learning about and using a trail you (or anyone else) broke out (after the fact) diminishes your own experience in any way. Or can reasonably be viewed as an annoyance. But then, maybe I've missed something here.

G.

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You missed the boat here. Who said anything that it diminished my own experience? If I break a trail doesn't mean I must advertise where I have been. That is my choice to make, no one else's.

Skyclimber2971w said:

You missed the boat here. Who said anything that it diminished my own experience? If I break a trail doesn't mean I must advertise where I have been. That is my choice to make, no one else's.

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I don't believe I've missed any boat here.

In your own words: "Others followed behind us, 'stealing' the peak . . .." That certainly implies to me that you came away with a sense of having been cheated out of something.

It's the word "stealing," even though used in quotes.

Now, I'll grant, of course, that the specific incident you cited was one of those tag-along cases in which the self-invited folks declined to help break trail. Rightly annoying, that refusal to help carry the load. But to imply theft in this or other cases when someone follows your broken-out trail sort of reveals a belief to the effect that you were unfairly deprived, in my opinion.

This isn't the first time I've sensed that sort of mindset when the issue of exchanging or publicizing trail and trip information via the internet has popped up. It always has puzzled me why anyone would think his or her own accomplishments in the peakbagging world could be substantially diminished by what someone else does (or doesn't) do. Maybe that particular competitive gene got left out of my makeup.

I agree that it's your own choice to publicize or clam up about where you're going or where you've been and what you've found. I haven't said -- and won't say -- you have any general obligation to share such information, although I do think sharing is a positive thing and like to see it happen.

G.

Grumpy said:

I don't believe I've missed any boat here.

In your own words: "Others followed behind us, 'stealing' the peak . . .." That certainly implies to me that you came away with a sense of having been cheated out of something.
It's the word "stealing," even though used in quotes.
But to imply theft in this or other cases when someone follows your broken-out trail sort of reveals a belief to the effect that you were unfairly deprived, in my opinion.
This isn't the first time I've sensed that sort of mindset when the issue of exchanging or publicizing trail and trip information via the internet has popped up. It always has puzzled me why anyone would think his or her own accomplishments in the peakbagging world could be substantially diminished by what someone else does (or doesn't) do. Maybe that particular competitive gene got left out of my makeup.
I agree that it's your own choice to publicize or clam up about where you're going or where you've been and what you've found. I haven't said -- and won't say -- you have any general obligation to share such information, although I do think sharing is a positive thing and like to see it happen.
G.

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Again I did not say anything that anyone else diminished my experience in any way. It's how I made the climb and the friendships along, that determined my experience and fun along the trails.

Stealing a peak to me, is "when one person works their butt off to get to the top of a peak and someone else just "waltzes" in after and has a cake walk to the summit." I also will say that I have agreed on many occasions with my hiking partner, "that we had all the fun," while breaking trails. Although we have had some of those "cake walks" ourselves. We though, however, did not rely on the Internet to get our peaks, we broke our own way, when needed. I do not share my info on the trails we broke. Let the others work just as hard as we did. Isn't that what Winter Climbing is all about? Excitement and challenge to the summits? Not knowing if your going to reach the top or not? Or has the new challenge become "how many cake walks can we get to the summits?"

Oh yes, I have already come to grips of reality on how Winter Climbing has changed throughout the years, as one put it to me, "you climbed in the Canister Era but now we are in the Computer Era," of climbing. Quite a difference. But my time of climbing was much more fun.

Marta,
Was I the one who said that about the cannister vs. computer era? I hope so , it's a good one.
I wouldn't t mind if people learned I broke a trail then "swooped in" soon after to take advantage of it. I think this could have happened twice this winter. Cliff and Caulkins, it may have been a fluke but there were no reports before we went, lots of deep snow, then lots of reports right after we went. That I don't mind. It might get on my nerves if the same people showed up over and over again and followed me around just so they could benefit from my trail breaking.

Who knows, maybe someone has a knee or a back problem and just can't take all that gruelling uphill snowshoeing anymore but just loves to be out on a summit. All this winter hiking with the packed sidewalk trails has opened up (or kept open) a whole world of self-propelled outdoor pleasure. Not everyone cares how hard it is. For many, the easier the better.

I do know what you mean about the satisfaction after a long, hard successful hike.

There seems to be an inconsistency here. On the one hand the followers are 'stealing the peak' and on the other the leaders are 'having all the fun'. So what's left to steal? Somehow, these 'internet hikers' are tainting the hike for those who don't 'rely on the internet'?

I think if you don't want anyone to know when and where you are hiking, then maybe don't publicize the date and place of your hike, yes?

I have never publicly announced my winter hikes, place and time, beforehand. But that's mainly because I don't want the responsibility of bringing to the trailhead people that I don't know (from screening them) should be there. Do I care if someone shows up after my group and I have 'broken' a trail, heck no. If anything, it brings us a little more glory. And of course, I'm only in it for the glory.

Skyclimber2971w said:

Stealing a peak to me, is "when one person works their butt off to get to the top of a peak and someone else just "waltzes" in after and has a cake walk to the summit.".

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So everyone who has climbed a mountain after the first person did- who had no trail, no physiological assurance that it could be done is stealing it?

Where's the line drawn? I've climbed a mountain by following a trail, did I steal it because I didn't blaze my own trail? I certainlly had a cake walk as compared to the first explorer who went that way...

If you really feel this strongly about this, do you make the effort to choose your own route and bushwack every mountain from the trailhead?

Neil said:

Marta,
Was I the one who said that about the cannister vs. computer era? I hope so , it's a good one.
.

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Yes siree, Doc it was you! I truly liked that saying. You opened my eyes to something that I actually hadn't really realized before. You know what I'm trying to say. So I am trying to win a losing battle here on explaining all of this. But what you said, those words will stick with me. I have even shared those words with others, who as well found it an interesting concept of Winter Climbing today.

I look at it this way.
If I'm part of a strong trail breaking party, I might not even bother to look for any trail reports after a fresh dump. The plan is to head for a certain peak, and do our best, regardless of how difficult it is. These hikes tend to be more gratifying for me.
For all that follow the trail, I hope they appreciate the effort that went into breaking the trail.

On the other hand,
If I'm going on a solo hike in winter, I may pick and choose the peak according to what I think I can do alone without any help. This is where I think the Internet is very helpful. Trail breaking solo for 7 or 8 miles is just not much fun for me anymore. I've tried it, and can't say I enjoyed it much. I rather be skiing.
I'm not ashamed to ride the tails of other people's shoes when I don't have a partner, or when I'm out with a hiker that might not have the experience or stamina to do Allen without it being broken out.

I just hope that when people are out there, they appreciate the hard work that someone did, allowing them to reach their goals they might not have finished without the help of others. That goes for trail maintenance, Darren's site, breaking trail, guide books, and all the rest that enables people to get out and experience the outdoors within their own limits.