Hiker Rescue - I think they didnt have a map
- Thread starter peakbagger
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jfb
Active member
Maybe the trails should be renamed as the Franconia Loop Trail and be blazed with green circles.
ChrisB
Well-known member
ChrisB
Well-known member
Nah.
That's the most info overloaded busiest sign ever!
Why not add:
Key West 1,832 miles. -->
<-- Montreal 104 miles
<-- Dublin Ireland 4,300 miles
Everest Base Camp 16,873 miles. -->
You guys Kill me!!
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AMC got a very large "cookie jar" of money to improve the loop with apparently no detailed plan on how to spend it, reportedly they plan at some point to actually do some work in the field rather than spend the money on administration and could spare a crew and some helicopter time to fly up bags of rocks to scree in a defined path off the summit. Not sure why the club needs to fly in bags of rocks but it seemed to be an important part of the Crawford Path work a few years ago.
ChrisB
Well-known member
Interesting. I believe the rock bag technique was also used around Washington summit.
The days of Guy n Laura rearranging rocks on Franconia Ridge are long gone I guess.
JustJoe
Active member
JustJoe
Active member
IMO it is not anyone's job to inject information and judgement into someone whom is not capable of doing so. Some folks should just stay out of the mountains. Plenty of people make this turn correctly all the time. If we put a band aid on every sliver of trail, are we really facilitating self-reliance. Before you know it there will be a fixed line to clip into to follow. As far as seeing it before everyone has to do this trail for a first time. Part of doing any hike for the first time especially one above tree line is educating oneself. Now a days everyone wants to go for a hike because it's the in thing to do. Just grab your cell phone and go and you too can take a selfie at the top. If so please at least get a map app. These guys got what they asked for. Again hopefully they learned something.
DayTrip
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Once again, I agree with you 100%. It just isn't a realistic expectation. I'm looking at it purely from the point of view of SAR and all the time and resources that get wasted for this exact same mistake every year at this spot. I think it is worth an exception in this one case to put up a better sign or something to prevent needless rescues from diverting resources to this from other better objectives.
I disagree that it is not a realistic expectation. How many people miss the turn coming down off Garfield? Also how do you land up climbing all the way to Spaulding Pond when your headed on the AT towards Madison? How do you land up down climbing Huntington Ravine Trail when your headed to Lion’s Head? More signage, more markers, more apps? If you just keep feeding the lemmings they will just keep coming and feeding off the crumbs and never learn to feed themselves.
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DayTrip
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Again, I'm talking about that specific error and the impact of it on SAR resources. I'm not going to stop and take the time to chart it all out but I bet that simple wrong turn is the possibly the number one call out error over the past five years or more. Why not reduce the demand on SAR resources with that one ever recurring issue? How many times do we allow the same error to happen before we have a change in what we're doing?
And not to go off on a separate argument (although that is of course the fun of this forum and why we love it) but the countless Huntington Ravine rescues I don't believe are the result of a wrong turn or not knowing where you are going but the fact that people do not understand the difficulty of the terrain and how dangerous it is, even if they understand contour lines on a map. In this case most of these people do have a map and see that trail as the shortest way back to their car not understanding the implications. This is probably the #1 SAR rescue issue in the Whites, with the GRT wrong turn weighing in at #2. If you could dramatically reduce these highly repetitive mistakes it would help take quite a load off of SAR in the area, which seems like a worthwhile goal.
JustJoe
Active member
It is the individuals responsibility to self educate themselves to this hobby/outdoor recreation. The very first place I went once me and a friend decided this was something we wanted to do, was to go to the rangers desk at the Lincoln Visitors Center. Probably spent an hour getting educated and purchasing maps. But unfortunately hiking has exploded, and the new breed of hikers we seem to have just don't get this isn't like going for a walk in their local state forest. I mean, they really do not get it. It's for this reason the WMNF trail stewards program was born. It is called, PSAR - Preventive Search and Rescue. Although they are trying to keep people safe, the goal is limit putting others in harms way, rescuing these knuckleheads. If this program helps keep these selfless volunteers safe, I'm totally for it. And heaven forbid, prevents one from the ultimate sacrifice, it's worth the effort. Again, being all volunteers, they only are at the 5 busy trail-heads on weekends as most have jobs. So a little extra signage although generally unsightly, can't hurt. I would say more so at trail-heads, and not in places like Franconia Ridge. IMO, that sign as it is can't be missed. Don't know what the stewards tell people, but one should be to stop at every sign they pass. Read it, look at the map they should have, and know where to go from there. I've been hiking regularly for 25 years. When I'm in a new area/trails I haven't hiked, I'm constantly pulling out my map at junctions I'm unsure of. This needs to be conveyed to hikers before they set foot on trail. If no stewards are there to assist in this, than a few more strategically placed information boards, certainly couldn't hurt. IMHO.
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(Raises hand. Of course, I was 12 and trying to catch up to my brothers, but I was well on my way toward Lafayette before I was chased down)
ChrisB
Well-known member
One of the nice things about cell phone apps is the ability to see in real time exactly where you are located on the map grid. I’ve used this feature a few times in the Belknaps to determine whether to go left or right at a trail junction. Zoom out for the big picture and in for trail junction detail.
And the phone will run all day in airplane mode while it very accurately tracks your exact location.
"Grumble" - A cell phone ap should not be a primary navigation tool, a great secondary tool for the experienced but not for newby. Too easy for the battery to be drained inadvertently when its needed most. A Tyvek map does not have a battery life. Many folks will not switch their phone to airplane mode as it means they are out of touch with the rest of the world
. Cell phones not in airplane mode burn up a lot of power repeatedly getting a tower fix in spotty cell coverage areas.
. Cell phones not in airplane mode burn up a lot of power repeatedly getting a tower fix in spotty cell coverage areas.
briarpatch
New member
Camels Hump can have a similar issues when hikers return from the summiting to the hut clearing. The Burrows, Monroe, and the Long Trail North lead from the clearing. The majority of the day hikers have ascended using either Burrows or Monroe trail. There is a large sign on the Long Trail North that reads, "Long Trail North does NOT return to the day hiking parking lots in Huntington or Duxbury" The NOT is in red and there is a yellow triangle with an exclamation point.
I don't have a picture of the sign, but was able to search images in Google for "long trail sign does not return to day hiking parking" and found and image.
I don't have a picture of the sign, but was able to search images in Google for "long trail sign does not return to day hiking parking" and found and image.
DayTrip
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I'd be willing to wager a fair amount that if you put a small, inconspicuous 6in x 6in sign at the summit with a QR Code on it linked to a summit map and directions that "wrong turns" would drop about 90%. Or at trailheads for that matter.
"One of the biggest mistakes people make is assuming that other people think the way we think"
"One of the biggest mistakes people make is assuming that other people think the way we think"
The overall question is do we want to the mountains (wilderness, trails, outdoors, etc.) to adapt to the populace, or the populace to adapt to the mountains.
This is exactly the problem. We now live in a society where everything has to be digitized for us to feel safe. Or at least that is what our mired media wants us to believe. Going for a hike use to be about unplugging. Is it the duty of the folks in the hiking community with half a brain to protect the others that have no brain at all? The environment is now supposed to be adapted or is it the hiker whom should be responsible for adapting themselves. First it is another sign. Then it is QR Codes. Next thing you know we have Dominos Pizza being delivered by Drones to Guyout. If we facilitate lack of self reliance in one place expectations of the ignorant will only become more demanding and the whole experience just gets more dumbed down. Therefore ruining it for the people that are out there for the rustic experience which it should be.
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