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Thread: NH Fish And Game Seeking Help With Missing Hiker

  1. #166
    Senior Member iAmKrzys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    Were you able to locate the spring that used to supply the Nauman Shelters (off the Webster Cliff Trail)?
    No, I have not as I actually haven't hiked around Mizpah Spring Hut. It is not marked on OpenStreetMap. I did find a zoomable map with a picture here: https://www.trailrunproject.com/trai...er-cliff-trail . Personally, I don't mark anything on OSM that I haven't visited or that I can't verify with a high degree of certainty from satellite imagery, so I won't be marking this source. I'm sure that sooner or later another hiker who is also into mapping with put that on a map.

  2. #167
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAmKrzys View Post
    No, I have not as I actually haven't hiked around Mizpah Spring Hut. It is not marked on OpenStreetMap. I did find a zoomable map with a picture here: https://www.trailrunproject.com/trai...er-cliff-trail . Personally, I don't mark anything on OSM that I haven't visited or that I can't verify with a high degree of certainty from satellite imagery, so I won't be marking this source. I'm sure that sooner or later another hiker who is also into mapping with put that on a map.
    Those 2 shelters were abut .25 miles from the summit of Jackson towards Clinton. They were separated by about 100 yards, with the lower one having the most reliable water.

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  3. #168
    Senior Member dug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike P. View Post
    However, we're a closed community, do we have an idea of how many non-members even stop by and view? text in their signatures, while bragging, pales in comparison today of selfies filling the entire screen. I never looked at some numbers and thought "wow, I could get 67 of 67 of something but happy people on bluebird days above treeline, looks much more inviting. (Maybe just allow those pictures we've all taken where visibility is near zero)
    Don't necessarily disagree, and am just having an open discussion so not "Blaming" anyone if they put their stats in there or share their experiences. But, there is a fine line between this and FB (which is built just for bragging and tattling, honestly), and that line shifts based on the individual. Personally, I don't see the difference.

  4. #169
    Senior Member Mike P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac View Post
    Lizzie Bourne - age 23. Died on MW in September of 1855. Pretty sure that social media was not to blame. I'm not being totally facetious, just trying to point out that flawed decision making (in the Whites) has been occurring for hundreds of years. IMHO, Sierra's comment "don't even know, what they don't know", may come closest to defining one of the root causes for these tragedies.
    She was part of a group, her cousin and uncle, back at a time where it took you most of a day to get there from their home in Southern Maine. https://www.cowhampshireblog.com/200...lizzie-bourne/

    They started in September at 2:00 and made it halfway by 4:00. Had she started at 5:00 AM like Emily, that marker likely wouldn't be there. The comments of a stranger who stayed at the Tip-Top House the night Lizzie died shows that they too were quite upset at the death of a young girl. You didn't name Strickland, the 1st death or Chandler, the 3rd and one of the oldest at 75 Yrs. You have to go to 1936 for the next death of a young woman Grace Sturgess, age 24. Skiing back in the old days seems to be more dangerous then it is today, IDK if that was before snow Rangers.

    As highways and vehicles improved so did accessibility. Fatalities are still mostly a male dominated field, however hiking used to have more, (higher percentage) men. (Not more men, just less woman and rarely a group of women.) In the 1990's rarely did you did see a group of women and women were found in College Outing Clubs or out with their boyfriends or families. Thankfully that is changing, I see groups of two or three women, solo women, women trail runners. I was on Mt. Crawford this March and the only other hikers I saw were women, two or three solo and three groups.

    If you wanted to look at the early deaths, one could say that only wealthy people died in the mountains. It had nothing to do with karma or bad luck, they were the only ones who could take time off from work for a week to spend money on something so silly. The poor likely were working in factories with their children or farming and livestock need daily care.

    It's quite possible that her uncle had heard about a friend or client's great adventure or read about it in the social media of the day, the newspaper.
    Last edited by Mike P.; 12-03-2022 at 07:21 AM. Reason: correction, percentages not numbers
    Have fun & be safe
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  5. #170
    Senior Member iAmKrzys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    Those 2 shelters were abut .25 miles from the summit of Jackson towards Clinton. They were separated by about 100 yards, with the lower one having the most reliable water.
    Are these shelters still there? I'm having a hard finding any mention of them except in older books. Also, I don't see anything on Strava heatmap that would look like a path to these shelters: https://www.strava.com/heatmap#15.37....20927/hot/all. I have a 30th edition of WMG but somehow I misplaced it, so I can't look at the same map to see if these shelters are still there on relatively recent map. While looking for my copy of WMG I also noticed that 31st edition has been published recently, now with contributions from Ken McGray.

  6. #171
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAmKrzys View Post
    Are these shelters still there? I'm having a hard finding any mention of them except in older books. Also, I don't see anything on Strava heatmap that would look like a path to these shelters: https://www.strava.com/heatmap#15.37....20927/hot/all. I have a 30th edition of WMG but somehow I misplaced it, so I can't look at the same map to see if these shelters are still there on relatively recent map. While looking for my copy of WMG I also noticed that 31st edition has been published recently, now with contributions from Ken McGray.
    The shelters are long gone, removed sometime in the 70s I believe. I didn't mean to send you on a wild goose chase looking for them, I just assumed you knew about them. I figure there must be water near their former spot. Over the years I have looked for some sign of the spur path that once led to them, but it's all grown in now. Another spot that I have always been curious about is the former location of the Isolation shelter and it's spring. However, when they removed the shelter they also rerouted the trails in that area so it is probably almost impossible to ever locate it.

  7. #172
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    The shelters are long gone, removed sometime in the 70s I believe. I didn't mean to send you on a wild goose chase looking for them, I just assumed you knew about them. I figure there must be water near their former spot. Over the years I have looked for some sign of the spur path that once led to them, but it's all grown in now. Another spot that I have always been curious about is the former location of the Isolation shelter and it's spring. However, when they removed the shelter they also rerouted the trails in that area so it is probably almost impossible to ever locate it.
    Nauman although it may have water, I would not rely on it. The shelter was removed because of the unreliability of the water in that spot. I'm sure there is water there intermittingly but if my memory serves me right its quality definitely puts it in the filterable category.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  8. #173
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiguy View Post
    Nauman although it may have water, I would not rely on it. The shelter was removed because of the unreliability of the water in that spot. I'm sure there is water there intermittingly but if my memory serves me right its quality definitely puts it in the filterable category.
    I was not aware that there was a water problem. That explains why they were removed so soon after they were constructed in 1965. I guess we were lucky in never having a problem with water.

  9. #174
    Senior Member iAmKrzys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    The shelters are long gone, removed sometime in the 70s I believe. I didn't mean to send you on a wild goose chase looking for them, I just assumed you knew about them. I figure there must be water near their former spot. Over the years I have looked for some sign of the spur path that once led to them, but it's all grown in now. Another spot that I have always been curious about is the former location of the Isolation shelter and it's spring. However, when they removed the shelter they also rerouted the trails in that area so it is probably almost impossible to ever locate it.
    While I love to pick up my hikes in places where trail mapping on OpenStreetMap is lacking and needs some work, I realize that searching in winter for slow running water would likely end up in failure, so I think it is more of a summer project! For some of abandoned trails there may be clues in Strava heatmap if the paths are still popular with people who know old routes.

  10. #175
    Senior Member skiguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    I was not aware that there was a water problem. That explains why they were removed so soon after they were constructed in 1965. I guess we were lucky in never having a problem with water.
    The run off is interesting through the area where the tent site was in the era. Not the most robust flowing place on the ridge. Also remember this was when “Acid Rain” was apparent. It was easier for the AMC to see a level of eradication by moving the whole show over to Mizpah. I must be getting soft but that was a good move by The AMC IMO.
    "I'm getting up and going to work everyday and I am stoked. That does not suck!"__Shane McConkey

  11. #176
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    To continue the drift, on the AT in PA and MD, there are several shelters where the water sources are way down off the ridgeline from the shelter. A couple of them in PA have Spring #1, Spring #2, Spring #3 that are all just the same seasonal drainage at different elevations down off the ridge. By the time a camper gets to spring #3 they are 1/2 mile plus down off the ridge.

  12. #177
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    On my first backpack across the Whites in 1965, the two new Naumann shelters had been recently built (replacing one old lean-to in disrepair, I think) and were the target camp site after two nights in the old “cow barn” shelter in Tucks (it had space for about 70), but on our late afternoon arrival the place was like what were later prepared for mud bowl football games in North Conway. We decided to bypass and continued over Jackson and down to the floor of Crawford Notch where in the dark we set up our plastic solo tube “tents” on the lawn in front of the old State DOT garage across from the Railroad Depot. From about 2 to 2:30 am we were awoken by the rumbling of a freight train slowly making its way up the notch, which culminated in each of the four of us imagining that we had been tied to the tracks and were about to be squashed. This event became a recurring nightmare for me in the years to follow.
    Last edited by Dr. Dasypodidae; 12-04-2022 at 07:13 AM.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    The shelters are long gone, removed sometime in the 70s I believe. I didn't mean to send you on a wild goose chase looking for them, I just assumed you knew about them. I figure there must be water near their former spot. Over the years I have looked for some sign of the spur path that once led to them, but it's all grown in now. Another spot that I have always been curious about is the former location of the Isolation shelter and it's spring. However, when they removed the shelter they also rerouted the trails in that area so it is probably almost impossible to ever locate it.
    If you're talking about the one near the jct of Iso east and Davis, it's a designated campsite now.

  14. #179
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshandBaron View Post
    If you're talking about the one near the jct of Iso east and Davis, it's a designated campsite now.
    That's interesting. The Iso East and Iso West trails used to meet at a 4-way junction (1969 AMC map and guidebook). This is where the shelter was located, although I don't remember which quadrant of the junction the shelter was located in. Now, there is some distance between them and their respective intersections with the Davis Path. So, what you are saying is that the shelter location has been turned into a designated campsite. That makes sense as it was a nice open area. Haven't been in that area in a while, but I don't remember seeing any signs for campsite area. Maybe they are just bootleg sites. Recent AMC guidebooks make reference to confusing paths and bootleg sites at that junction. Also says that it is .1 miles from site of old shelter to Iso East Trail.

    Thanks for that info. I don't visit Mt Isolation often.
    Last edited by maineguy; 12-05-2022 at 07:48 AM.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by maineguy View Post
    That's interesting. The Iso East and Iso West trails used to meet at a 4-way junction (1969 AMC map and guidebook). This is where the shelter was located, although I don't remember which quadrant of the junction the shelter was located in. Now, there is some distance between them and their respective intersections with the Davis Path. So, what you are saying is that the shelter location has been turned into a designated campsite. That makes sense as it was a nice open area. Haven't been in that area in a while, but I don't remember seeing any signs for campsite area. Maybe they are just bootleg sites. Recent AMC guidebooks make reference to confusing paths and bootleg sites at that junction. Also says that it is .1 miles from site of old shelter to Iso East Trail.

    Thanks for that info. I don't visit Mt Isolation often.
    Yup. That lean-to was still there (NE quadrant of intersection, shown on 1963 AMC map) on my first visit to Mt Isolation in 1965, on an epic day hike with full external frame backpacks that began with an Audubon Society bird walk in the Great Gulf, a terrifying ascent of Six Husbands Trail (we left the bird walkers behind), a traverse of Mounts Clay, Washington, Boott Spur, Slide Peak, and Isolation, and descent with Justrite headlamps (four D cells, mail-ordered from Campmor!) to Rocky Branch shelter no. 2 where we met two friends with the homemade wine who had hiked TFW earlier in the day. Mounts Ike and Pierce were Mounts Pleasant and Clinton back then. :-)
    Last edited by Dr. Dasypodidae; 12-05-2022 at 08:13 AM.

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