Planes buzzing ADK summmits.

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Should sight seeing planes be alowed to buzz summits?


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    68

Neil

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On weekends, sightseeing planes routinely buzz the summits of Mt. Marcy and Algonquin. These planes bug me. First, because they are noisy, intrusive and obnoxious. Second, because they bring a carnaval atmosphere to the wilderness. Third, because they turn the High Peaks into a consumable entity in the collective consciousness of the people who experience them, either as hikers or as passengers. I would rather they weren't there. How do you feel about it?
 
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That sucks. When did this start? I haven't been to the ADKs in 25 years and remember the tranquility of the woods. Now with planes buzzing in can really ruin a beautiful day.

Who is running these tours? Perhaps there is some way to stop it?
 
I personally don't like seeing the planes in the High Peaks. It intrudes on my "wilderness" experience. We once camped on an island on Little Tupper Lake right after it was bought by the state and opened to the public. I had thought this would really be a "wilderness experience". It must lie in a flight path because there were jets and small planes passing over all day and all night. It was very disturbing. The second day we were there a yellow (DEC?) hellicopter came down the lake and and circled our island. They hovered so close off the island over our canoe that I thought maybe they were checking to see if we had picked up all the gum wrappers in our camp area!
Last summer we were on top of Algonquin and a small plane flew down Avalanche Lake. It did feel kind of neat to look down on a plane but that is not why I go to places like Algonquin. This past winter we snowshoed into Avalanche Lake and a plane or jet went over and left a white streak in an otherwise perfect blue sky. Didn't like that in my pictures.
 
I've seen cruise ships in Glacier Bay. Helicopter tours and plane tours in the Grand Canyon. Countless Zodiac guided tours for whales in Vancouver. A-10s (I believe) pulling maneuvers in Franconia Notch...and those *&^% Duck Boats all over Boston. ;)

Wish they weren't there? I don't know...kinda cool sometimes... and the "tourists" always seem to leave before the s'mores are ready at the campfire.

peace.
 
Neil said:
On weekends, sightseeing planes routinely buzz the summits of Mt. Marcy and Algonquin. These planes bug me. First, because they are noisy, intrusive and obnoxious. Second, because they bring a carnaval atmosphere to the wilderness. Third, because they turn the High Peaks into a consumable entity in the collective consciousness of the people who experience them, either as hikers or as passengers. I would rather they weren't there. How do you feel about it?

It takes a lot of nerve for someone who hikes up Wright Peak and steals a piece of the downed B-47 for a souvenir to complain about anything to do with airplanes! I've never been buzzed on any summit. Maybe they leave those of us who practice LNT alone?!
 
I guess I never gave it much thought. I am usually in my own little world when I am hiking in the woods. I see your point Neil on ruining your outdoor expierence.

I still think it would be cool though to see the high peaks from above once I complete my 46. It would give a whole different view and feel from above :)

ADAM
 
Doc McPeak said:
It takes a lot of nerve for someone who hikes up Wright Peak and steals a piece of the downed B-47 for a souvenir to complain about anything to do with airplanes! I've never been buzzed on any summit. Maybe they leave those of us who practice LNT alone?!

Oh yeah! You've been served!

(just kidding)

I usually just wave at them like a fool.
 
Hi Neil,

With all due respect, I think the wording of the poll question is somewhat biased. Should planes "buzz" the summits, which suggests to me coming uncomfortably close to hikers? No, of course not. Nor should they be landing on summits? No. Do I think sight-seeing planes have their place in the Adirondacks? Yes. As I think I've said elsewhere, I admit I have seen planes only infrequently in the Adirondacks. Sometimes I was annoyed, other times I thought it was cool. My only helicopter encounter was on the summit of Cathead Mt., where there is (was?) a landing pad for official 'copters to land. The mountain (now closed to the public) was devoid of any hint or sound of wildlife for the time we were up there. But in my experience, these types of incidents are by far the exception rather than the rule.
 
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rhihn said:
Hi Neil,

With all due respect, I think the wording of the poll question is somewhat biased.
Roger that, I can see your point. Perhaps this would be better, "should aircraft be allowed to approach summits for sightseeing purposes"
I would edit the question but I can't get "edit" to work for a poll question.
 
Ruins the experience?

Why is it that so many people allow their experience to be ruined? Planes, dogs, trail erosion, postholers, you name it. Always someone else to blame. Perhaps the answer lies within.
 
dial6212000 said:
Why is it that so many people allow their experience to be ruined? Planes, dogs, trail erosion, postholers, you name it. Always someone else to blame. Perhaps the answer lies within.
Ruined? Just cuz something bugs me certainly dosn't mean my experience is "ruined".
 
I've seen planes near Monadnock a number of times. It used to be military jets from the local AFB, throttling down and flying by at eye level. Most of the crowd seemed to think this was pretty cool. More recently I've seen a couple of cute biplanes. Of course Monadnock typically has big crowds and something of a carnival atmosphere anyway.

Twice I've seen sailplanes close to Lafayette. Way cool! Of course they're silent and pretty. It's pretty exciting the way they hug the contours of the mountain too.

I wouldn't want to see planes every time I summited, but I'm perfectly happy to see (and hear) one occasionally.
 
Well someone could use the some of the same reasoning about hikers. Those who want to see a VFTT should be allowed to by plane.

I was hiking on the Franconia ridge a few years back and there was a glider flying around Lafayette down low. I thought it was pretty cool. No noise but if a plane was doing it I would not have a problem with it. They don't stay long.


Hey, dial6212000, I'm with ya.

Live free or die!
 
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not you, neil

Neil, I was referring to at least two other replies on this thread which used the word "ruin", and generalizing my comment to dozens of other similar comments made over the years on other threads. I personally don't find the planes annoying. Indeed I believe the juxtaposition of technology and nature is ongoing evidence that mankind is capable of utilizing technology to alter (hopefully, and usually, improve) society while maintaining a balance with nature. We've come a long ways since the slash and burn days. I love seeing the planes, the village lights at night, and the ski jumps from the mountaintops. Mankind rocks!
 
I don't hike the daks, but I think those people sightseeing from a plane have just as much a right to be there as people do hiking it. Who are any of us to say hikers should be the only ones to see the summits.
 
Replying to this question on another thread, I will give the same answer to see what others think.

The Mountains and the views should not be for only those who can climb.There are others who would/do enjoy and benefit from these sort of other resources to the summits. The handicap/elderly/past hikers etc.The Scenic Flight allows others to enjoy the views as well. I'm sure the Creator didn't pick and choose who will see and who will not. It's not like they "swarm" the summits on a 24/7 basis. Maybe next time you can find out their flight schedule that way you won't be there, when they "swarm" the summits. To ruin that wilderness experience. (no offense intended)The Scenic Flight and the Memorial Highway I'm sure were both intended so that ALL may enjoy the Mountaintop Scenery. Not only those fortunate to be able to climb.

Personally when I saw a plane around the summits it didn't bother me in the least. Climbing Black Mountain and having a helicopter land on the top, just a few hundred yards from us, was kind of an unique experience.
 
General, they don't bug me, and we "lovingly" refer to them as summit bugs. Since, I'm with my kids alot, we'll generally do stupid "kid-like" things like make faces, jump up-and-down, etc at them. It neither ruins nor enhances my hiking experience and I'll admit, I've been tempted to plunk my 25 clams down just to "take a peek at the peaks" from above. I haven't yet, but you never know, might just gather some good intel on potential whacks that way ;).

As an aside, I generaly hate quoting regs (cuz people jump all over you), but, heres what it say in the HPWA UMP about planes.

HPWA UMP said:
The use of aircraft for emergency operations including fire suppression, search and rescue and medical emergencies is considered appropriate under established policy and guidelines. Helicopters are also used for administrative support functions in the back country such fish stocking, biological surveys, etc. DEC fixed wing and helicopter flights, except in emergencies, are restricted to periods of low visitor use to reduce sound and visual intrusions. The "off-peak" period ranges from October 16 to May 24 annually. Aircraft use requires pre-approval by the Commissioner or by his designee (as defined by Chapter 8410 of DEC Policies and Procedures Manual, adopted 1974).

Noise exists over the wilderness due to commercial and private flights from nearby airports as well. All airspace is under the jurisdiction of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA); the states do not have the power to regulate their own air space. In cooperation with the Department of Defense and the State Office of Military and Naval Affairs, military overflights have been discontinued over much of the wilderness. However, a narrow flight path exists parallel to Long Lake and the Raquette River. Private flights are required to maintain a minimum horizontal and vertical clearance of 500 feet above or near natural obstructions such as mountaintops. In contrast, the FAA requires a 2,000 feet clearance above the terrain in federally designated wilderness areas. These specially defined areas, are clearly depicted on National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) aeronautical charts.

Seems as if "there is NOTHING you can do" so long as the plane maintains a 500 foot horizontal and vertical clearance of summits. So why fret.
 
ripple said:
I think those people sightseeing from a plane have just as much a right to be there as people do hiking it.

I disagree. Planes or any motorized vehical is going to have a much greater impact on the surrounding environment then any hiker. I think we need places to escape the mechanized world. I have never heard even the loudest loudmouth from several miles away, which you can easily hear planes from that distance. I assume a helicopter would have equal rights as a plane ? These are even louder, and probably better for sightseeing because they can hover and some have see through floors. If planes are let in, why not helicopters (that debate would surely surface)? I know these tours do exist in the Canadian rockies. Would your statement also apply to ATVers wishing a ride to the summit ? A bit off topic maybe, I am not trying to dump on you, just taking your statement at face value.

That said, I do not think the volume of air traffic over the northeast has become even close to problematic. If it did, I would be in favor of some sort of regulation limiting the number of planes in the area at any one time. I would NOT favor outlawing planes all together over the peaks. Ofcourse it would be up to somebody, probably a sample of hikers and pilots (or tour operators) working together, to define what "problematic" is. Similar problems faced by national parks in the west where number of visitors are limited.

ripple said:
Who are any of us to say hikers should be the only ones to see the summits.

Who do we need to be ?
 
mavs00 said:
It neither ruins nor enhances my hiking experience and I'll admit, I've been tempted to plunk my 25 clams down just to "take a peek at the peaks" from above. I haven't yet, but you never know, might just gather some good intel on potential whacks that way ;).
.

Three passengers and the pilot is all this little plane can hold.
It will be the BEST 25 clams you ever spent. The pics from above are pretty neat. I have several, as I have done this flight a few times. Have plans to do it again this Summer, on a pretty day. Sorry Neil. I'll wave to you but promise I won't "purge" on your head.
 
Planes? What Planes?

With all the black fly carcasses impacted in my ear, I never hear 'em anyway.

I have a seen a few. They really don't bother me, but I would be concerned if there became a proliferation of them, like some other "scenic destinations".
 
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