Giardia Discussion

Artex said:

Has anyone heard that if you get giardia once, there's a good chance you can't get it again? Any truth to that?

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If you get it once you will develop antibodies against it. Which means you can mount a faster attack against the buggers.

Puck said:

If you get it once you will develop antibodies against it. Which means you can mount a faster attack against the buggers.

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I doubt this, being acquainted with a few people who have suffered from giardiasis. One of them has had it twice.

G.

Grumpy said:

I doubt this, being acquainted with a few people who have suffered from giardiasis. One of them has had it twice.

G.

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I didn't say that you will not get it again. The disease is your bodies response to the protist. It will come on faster the second time around because you have the anitbodies against it. Having antibodies does not always mean immunity.

Artex said:

Has anyone heard that if you get giardia once, there's a good chance you can't get it again? Any truth to that?

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Yes, I think there is a lot of truth to that but in the sense that if you've had it once, you take precautions so that you never get it again. I'm getting to the age where too many of my friends have started to talk mainly about infirmities and illnesses so I generally avoid talking about mine, but here goes on giardia.

I had a case in the early 1980s when I was doing a lot of hiking in the Whites to finish up the "list" trailwrights style, single peak by peak. I was drinking untreated water straight from streams. What I got was not a classic case in the sense that it was low-level, seemingly chronic, would come and go, and could easily be attributed to other reasons (stress, IBS, etc.), none of which sounded right to me becasue I'd never had GI problems before but, hey, I was only the patient. Physicians here had hardly heard of giardia then. It lasted on and off for several years. In the "shedding" stage (which affects the lower colon), it could be intense for a day or so and then eased off, only to build again.

I also noticed a new never-before symptom, lactose intolerance, and assumed that I'd developed that somehow. In the meanwhile, my GI specialist was moving towards a possible diagnosis of colon cancer so we did the drill on that and the test came out negative. He was ready to hang the IBS diagnosis on it and tell me to do some yoga or meditation or whatever to deal with stress, which I was not really under other than this problem.

At about this point I happened to read an article in the ADK magazine, the first I'd seen about giardia in untreated mountain water. It mentioned that giardia can cause lactose intolerance. Bingo, lightbulbs went on, it all came together. To make a long story short, I discussed this with my physician, we treated it with a week of an antiparasitic drug, flagyl, the condition disappeared and has never returned. I have treated water ever since.

Giardia is generally not a big deal if you have a classic full-blown case. It's no fun, but you can treat it quickly and effectively if it presents dramatically. With minimal caution, you can avoid ingesting again. (Wash hands in the backcountry after nature calls as well as treat water.) It's virtually impossible to test for it as it involves getting into the upper intestine, not an easy job. If you have anything other than the classic full-blown case, however, it can be expensive, frustrating, time-consuming, and worrisome to rule out all the really bad things you might have and finally cut to the chase, flagyl or an equivalent drug (there are probably newer and better ones now). Treat or filter the water; in group hiking situations, wash hands before handling food. You can be an asymptomatic carrier and pass it to other people if your hands are contaminated. It's really so much simpler all the way around.

> Can dogs get giardia?

Yes. And since they drink and poop anywhere, they can be a significant vector for spreading the parasite. Various other animals can also get it.

> Can you get it again?

According to Wilkerson (Medicine for Mountaineering), "most people develop some sort of immunity" and "recurrent symptomatic infestations are rare".

> Symptoms

Can range from asymptomatic (a "carrier"), to rather severe intestinal distress. Mine came in waves--ok for several days, then intestinal distress for several days. (difficulty eating, bloating, diarrhea. I was losing weight because I couldn't eat enough.)

> Self limiting?

Some people get rid of it without treatment, some do not.

BTW, children's day-care is a good site for spreading the bug...

I'll add that washing ones hands after taking a dump and before handling food/eating are the basic methods of prevention (in addition to treating one's drinking water). Hand sanitizer also helps.

Doug

Giardia in Bucharest

When we traveled to Romania 5 years ago to receive our daughter she was 2 1/2 and had a number of hygiene oriented issues, empintigo (sp) giardia, thick upper respirtory congestion, and oddly, an extreme fear of taking a bath.

The Giardia showed up in a simple stool sample and was quickly treated with antibiotics. Despite the fact that she was in diapers that required changing neither of us contracted it,

We have been a family of borderline OCD hand washers ever sense and it is no different when in the back country. My bottle of purell hand sanitizer is always readily available. We filter a great deal of water when in the woods as I hate to carry it if I know there is sure water ahead ans TBTG we have been giardia free!

So the moral is I think is that you can easily control your suseptibilty (sp) to it with an ounce of prevention.

-PJ-

The way I see it there are plenty of risks that we take when hiking and backpacking and this is one that is easily avoided. Never had it, that I know of, and expect that everyone's susceptibility to it is different and can vary from time to time depending on what else our antibodies are fighting. This is the modest effort I take to mitigate this risk.

Water filter on long hikes and backpacks. Iodine tablets as a backup. Hand sanitizer when I remember to use it ... more likely to use it if I suspect some kind of exposure.

Inevitably, the Iodine tablets "expire" long before I put a dent in the little jar but here's why I carry them.

The time it takes to filter the water often leads one to tempt fate with untreated water so the ease, if not the taste, of iodine tablets leaves you little excuse. You can continue on your hike or get other things done while the iodine does its thing.

Iodine treated water can provide a sanitizing wash in the event of a cut or abrasion. The value of this should not be underestimated because infections can grow to a serious problem within less than 24 hours if wounds are not properly cleaned and dressed.

As for the iodine taste problem ... hey ... I figure if I can drink straight tequila I can drink anything. Just don't over indulge in the iodine method; it can have long term effects on your liver ... hmmmm, same for tequila for that matter.

Stan said:

Water filter on long hikes and backpacks. Iodine tablets as a backup. Hand sanitizer when I remember to use it ... more likely to use it if I suspect some kind of exposure.

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I carry hand sanitizer with my TP so it is right at hand when you need it.

Inevitably, the Iodine tablets "expire" long before I put a dent in the little jar but here's why I carry them.

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I carry a dropper bottle of tincture of iodine. Cheap, easy to get, long shelf life. See Wilkerson ("Medicine for Mountaineering") for details.

The drawback of iodine is that it is not very good at killing giardia and cryptosporidium.

I don't mind the taste, but that is easily taken care of if you wish.

Doug