Giardia: Handwashing or Filtering?

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Excellent link! I find that I've taken for granted that there is (is not?) something called giardia all around and to not drink the nasty water. The info in this report isn't a big surprise but it's great to have it written in an effective manner like this. Thanks.

-Dr. Wu
 
dave.m said:
Does anybody know what the cyst/liter numbers are for the White?

No. Why not ask MSR, Sweetwater, Pur, etc to finance a study.

What, me cynical?

Nothing really surprises me in that article. I beleive that daycare centers is where one has the greatest chance of picking up giardia.
 
Pete_Hickey said:
No. Why not ask MSR, Sweetwater, Pur, etc to finance a study.

What, me cynical?
Somehow, I expect that a study funded by the above will find a significant concentration.

What, me cynical?

I'll bet they could get a higher-than-normal count by sampling just below a popular backwoods camping site (no facilities) just after a heavy rain. (BTW, a good time to be particularly careful.)

Nothing really surprises me in that article. I beleive that daycare centers is where one has the greatest chance of picking up giardia.
Yep: fecal contamination is a (if not the) major means of spread.

This article has been around for quite a while and at many places on the net. Should be required reading for the outdoors crowd. Or at least those who want to eat and drink while in the woods...

Doug
 
I used to drink unfiltered water, then...

I got beaver fever once and since then I've been nervous to drink untreated water. I got it really bad too! Before then I drank untreated water on every hike. Maybe I'm just scared now, but for all the times I drank water untreated and I only got sick once maybe I'm just being overly careful now.


Damb Red Sox, they just got their butts kicked 15 - 2 :(
 
Yes, this article has been around quite a while, and is worth reading and mulling over.

One thing to take note of is that many people acquire and harbor the giardia cysts in significant concentration yet show no symptoms of giardiasis. Trouble is, people like that become carriers and prospectively create pockets of contamination wherever they go.

It may be closing the barn door after the horse is gone, but as a matter of personal responsibility perhaps we should take adequate precautions to avoid acquiring the cysts in the first place and thus becoming carriers ourselves. That is an argument for filtering or treating our water I’ve not seen widely made, but it makes some sense to me.

Just something to think about.

G.
 
Grumpy said:
Yes, this article has been around quite a while, and is worth reading and mulling over.

One thing to take note of is that many people acquire and harbor the giardia cysts in significant concentration yet show no symptoms of giardiasis. Trouble is, people like that become carriers and prospectively create pockets of contamination wherever they go.

It may be closing the barn door after the horse is gone, but as a matter of personal responsibility perhaps we should take adequate precautions to avoid acquiring the cysts in the first place and thus becoming carriers ourselves. That is an argument for filtering or treating our water I’ve not seen widely made, but it makes some sense to me.
IMO, this applies in and out of the woods.

Easily done by basic handwashing dicipline and a little care with food and water. Also helps one to avoid colds, flu, etc.

The human hand is a major agent for spreading diseases...

Doug
 
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Try colloidal silver

I've read reports of a lot of people saying that putting a few drops of colloidal silver in water will kill any harmful organisms and won't harm you the least when you drink it. You can even ingest some colloidal silver yourself to ward off any of those little varmints inside you. Supposedly, modern colloidal silver will even kill the "super bugs" that antibiotics can't touch. I'm not sure of all the claims, but I've tried it several times in different situations, and I think it's had positive results, or what I should say is that I think it's prevented negative results.
 
Excuse me?

Silver? I treat water for a living and have never heard of that, got any more info. I'm not going to say it's bunk as I know little about it, but I do have an extensive background in water/wastewater/groundwater treatment, so I know more than the average joe.

Grumpy, just how go you "take adequate precautions to avoid acquiring the cysts in the first place"? Giardia/Crypto can only be measured through extensive bioassay testing, which is difficult and expensive. Groundwater can be from any source, just because it's cold a bubbling doesn't mean it isn't surface water from somewhere else. In fact, the colder the water, the more difficult the treatment as the CT values are significantly reduced.
 
Lawn Sale said:
. . . Grumpy, just how go you "take adequate precautions to avoid acquiring the cysts in the first place"? Giardia/Crypto can only be measured through extensive bioassay testing, which is difficult and expensive. Groundwater can be from any source, just because it's cold a bubbling doesn't mean it isn't surface water from somewhere else. In fact, the colder the water, the more difficult the treatment as the CT values are significantly reduced.

Glad you asked that question.

My view on the filtration-treatment question looks outward toward helping protect water sources for the benefit of other folks, as well as inward toward protecting myself from giardiasis.

In case it's not clear in what I wrote earlier, I think treating, boiling and/or filtering water in the boonies is a responsible thing to do: a responsible precaution. Since we can't tell what's in the water by its appearance, I think that is how we can avoid acquiring the cysts from untested backcountry water supplies in the first place, and thus can avoid becoming (or minimize our roles as) unwitting carriers to spread or otherwise contribute to contamination.

I also take the usual precautions to protect water sources from fecal contamination, and am meticulous about personal hygiene (hand washing or sanitization, e.g.) to protect myself.

G.
 
Lawn Sale said:
Silver? I treat water for a living and have never heard of that, got any more info. I'm not going to say it's bunk as I know little about it, but I do have an extensive background in water/wastewater/groundwater treatment, so I know more than the average joe.

I'm no expert on colloidal silver and basicly am going by what I've read about it and also a limited positive experience I've had with it myself. According to many of the people who promote colloidal silver, the reason we don't hear more about it is because the government and drug industry don't want us to, for obvious reasons.

You asked for some info on it, so here ya go:
http://www.all-natural.com/silver-1.html
http://www.helmar.org/index.php?c=6&id=157

The 2nd article lists quite a few ailments that colloidal silver will help you with, supposedly, including giardia, and preventing it. In it the author says, "TO PURIFY WATER: Add one ounce (of colloidal silver) per gallon, shake well, wait six minutes, shake again, wait 6 minutes and drink."


I do realize that many articles promoting its use are written by people who are also selling it or the home generators that you can make it with. There sure are a lot of personal testimonials as to its positive affects that can be found, though.

BTW, any good health store sells this stuff like it's going out of style, and it ain't that cheap, so maybe there's something to it.
 
I don't know - looking at available literature on the net basically says no one has checked on the toxicity of colloidal silver. The MSDS doesn't say it's safe or non-toxic, it says "no data'. Not the same thing. http://atsdr1.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp146.pdf

It doesn't sound as bad as mercury, but I don't think I'll try it.
 
I'll look it up in some of my reference materials at work, they're more extensive than stuff available to the general public.

I'm always skeptical of "snake-oils", but every now and then a new step in the technological stairs is added, bringing us higher towards our goals.

I find it curiously odd that I have not seen any references to it in the Trade magazines, journals, or through word of mouth.
 
Lawn Sale said:
I'm always skeptical of "snake-oils", but every now and then a new step in the technological stairs is added, bringing us higher towards our goals.
It's actually one of the oldest steps in technology going and was very popular up until the discovery of the wonder drugs in the late 1930's like penicillin. Then those antibiotics became so popular that colloidal silver faded into the background. Now that modern antibiotics have little effect against so many of the so-called super bugs out there, colloidal silver is gaining interest again because it's said to be the only thing that will kill those particular strains of super bugs when nothing else will.

Supposedly it has no negative side effects, other than the rare case of parts of someone's skin turning blue if they happened to consume gallons of the stuff on a regular basis. Yikes! It's non-toxic unless you abuse it tremendously.

I guess it's more well-known in Europe than it is here and I'm sure if there's anything to it, the drug industry here would like to keep it that way, although in this one article it says:
"Used in the space shuttle. When will we see silver in our everyday life for non-medical use? It seems it is already more prominent in our lives than most people realize. In the former Soviet Union, silver is used to sterilize recycled water aboard space shuttles. NASA has also selected a silver/water system for its space shuttle. Internationally, many airlines use silver water filters to guarantee passenger safety against water-borne diseases such as dysentery. The Swiss government has approved use of such silver water filters in homes and offices. In the U.S some city municipalities use silver in the treatment of sewage. Silver works so well in purifying water that it is sometimes used to purify swimming pool water. It didn't sting the eyes as chlorine does, and it does kill mosquito larva. An experiment conducted in Nebraska demonstrates its effectiveness: fifty gallons of raw sewage were pumped into a pool without any disinfectant. A standard measure of contamination is the count of E. coli, a bacteria organism found in the intestinal tract. The count soared to 7000 E. coli cells per milliliter of water. When the water was exposed to silver electrodes, within three hours it was completely free of E. coli."
http://www.drclark.net/bulletin/cs.htm

In another article....
"Dr. Henry Crooks showed Colloidal Silver to be absolutely harmless, and non-toxic to humans, and highly germicidal. Colloidal Silver has proven itself useful against all species of fungi, parasites, bacteria, protozoa, and certain viruses."
http://www.quantumbalancing.com/news/cs_historical.htm

Wouldn't it be nice to carry a 2oz bottle of it hiking, instead of the usual water filters, if we could be sure of its germ-killing qualities? A couple of months ago my wife and I went on vacation to Mexico and from hearing so much about the water there deicided to bring a small bottle of colloidal silver with us. While there, I ingested a teaspoon of it every other day and had no bad symptoms on the trip. Now can I attribute that to the colloidal silver? No, but it didn't hurt, and it gave me confidence when I was there that I wouldn't get sick. Now I make sure I have a small bottle of it handy in the medicine closet and I think the premise of what it can do does hold merit.

Anyway, getting back to the original post, I think a combination of filtering and handwashing with waterless cleaner is the best preventive measure as to avoiding giardia. I just bought some waterless handwashing cleaner at EMS that was really cheap and it supposedly kills all bad germs on your hands just by letting it dry. Just the same, on any extended hikes, I'm gonna take a little vial of colloidal silver just to make sure! :D
 
steppinwolf said:
Anyway, getting back to the original post, I think a combination of filtering and handwashing with waterless cleaner is the best preventive measure as to avoiding giardia. I just bought some waterless handwashing cleaner at EMS that was really cheap and it supposedly kills all bad germs on your hands just by letting it dry. Just the same, on any extended hikes, I'm gonna take a little vial of colloidal silver just to make sure! :D
Just to prevent confusion: there is a class of products called "waterless hand cleaners". Used, for instance, for cleaning one's hands after working on one's car. No germicial claims.

What is relevant here is "hand sanitizer", an alcohol based product that kills pathogens on visually clean hands. (This is presumably what you got at EMS. Also available in grocery stores. Try to get the unscented kind for outdoor use.)

Doug
 
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DougPaul said:
Just to prevent confusion: there is a class of products called "waterless hand cleaners". Used, for instance, for cleaning one's hands after working on one's car. No germicial claims.

What is relevant here is "hand sanitizer", an alcohol based product that kills pathogens on visually clean hands. (This is presumably what you got at EMS. Also available in grocery stores. Try to get the unscented kind for outdoor use.)

Doug
Yup, that's exactly what I got at EMS. It's called "Hand Sanitizer" and it's put out by Atwater Carey. You're supposed to apply it to your hands and just let it dry without wiping them off.
 
steppinwolf said:
Yup, that's exactly what I got at EMS. It's called "Hand Sanitizer" and it's put out by Atwater Carey. You're supposed to apply it to your hands and just let it dry without wiping them off.
I think I also got some from EMS to get the small bottle for hiking and then refill from bigger cheaper bottles from the grocery store.

Doug
 
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