Trail Running

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Puck

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There are a lot of people on this site who are trail runners, Stinky Feet, Sherpa J, Frodo, Tim Seaver, Gearge Fitch et al.

I have started trail running on some traprock ridges here in CT. My questions are; What do you have on your feet? Do you use poles? How do you handle descents and not twist your angle? What is your rate of speed to avoid injury? I am nervous about ankle and knee injuries so I will slow down to a fast walk. Would you consider trail running a jog over a mountain with a million hazards?
 
I do a little bit of trail running, usually when I don't have time to go hiking, maybe 15, 20 miles a week. But I don't really run on trails that I would usually hike, where the trails are usually much rougher. I stick to local trails, places where there isn't even hundreds of feet of elevation gain/loss, and with few obstacles. This helps me to maintain a healthy speed that I don't think I'd be able to if I were constantly worrying about foot placement.

But again, I'm not out there racing or anything like that, so if your goal is to train for something like that, maybe you'd want something a little rougher. I'm stickin' to local parks with trails that I know well for now.
 
Puck said:
I have started trail running on some traprock ridges here in CT. My questions are; What do you have on your feet? Do you use poles? How do you handle descents and not twist your angle? What is your rate of speed to avoid injury? I am nervous about ankle and knee injuries so I will slow down to a fast walk. Would you consider trail running a jog over a mountain with a million hazards?
It's been a long time for me but... I would start off on easier 'trails' as opposed to either extreme: road running or crazy rocky stuff. Running on an easier trail will allow you to get used to running on an irregular, sometimes soft, sometimes hard surface. Something like, Signal Ridge Trail up to the junction isn't bad, I don't think. Ummm... I could be wrong on that, last time I did it was in winter. Then eventually go on some trails where the irregularities get more irregular.

Shoes... I don't know. When I ran cross country I used regular running shoes and we ran on some bad stuff... however, these new trail runners seem good. SJ or one of the speed guys probably knows best here.

I wouldn't use poles. If you're worried, I'd take them with you... they work for me in certain situations but I don't use them all the time. I don't use them if I'm ever running but they might be nice to have along, I guess?

I think the best way though is to start simple and work your way up in terms of difficulty. A lot of your problems you'll just work out with trial and error. You'll have to be the best judge for yourself as to how fast you can go on descent etc.

Good Luck! I hope I can get back into some trail running myself, eventually!

-Dr. Wu
 
I trail run for exercise, nothing long distance, just a couple miles a couple times a week. I started several years ago when I found it was more fun, challenging, and beneficial than road running. The ‘hill’ I run goes up 1150’ in ¾ mile, then I take a longer route down (2 -2 ½ miles). I don’t usually run up (though I have done some running uphill) but rather go at a quick, steady pace then I run most of the way down, whether it is across the ridge top and down or just down the ledges (as I have several choices).

I wear ‘trail runner’ shoes with a firm insole, I never use poles and rarely run with a pack (it’s just uncomfortable) rather I stash the few things I carry in my pockets. I started out on more even terrain and worked up to more ‘hazardous’. As you increase the distance and difficulty you strengthen the ankles. I twisted them a few times when I started but not bad enough to do damage and found my feet are much more flexible now to handle most anything. You also slowly improve the eye/foot coordination which even works wonders on regular hiking (something I needed ;) ).
 
Goodie!

I'll do my best to add my 2 cents worth.

Feet: I am currently running in a pair of North Face GTX Trail Runners. They are light weight, breathable and also have Goretex which helps keep the feet dry. The soles have "Trail-grip" on the bottom which has been great on rocky sections. There are a few places in the whites where I run on some smoothed out slab, and the shoes REALLY grip nicely on them. I even ran in these shoes while there was still snow on the ground and they rocked even then! I am waiting for a pair of GoLite runners to try em out but doubt I'll find a better shoe than my NF. I hear solomons are good though.

Socks: I wear a pair of Smartwool Adrenaline Mini Crew. My feet have NEVER stayed drier longer. My feet never prune or fall apart, in fact... I almost never feel any sweat down there at all. When I take the socks off at the end of the day, the socks are soaked but the feet are dry. I highly recommend.

Poles: NO WAY! My thoughts on hiking poles have changed drastically over the past year. In winter it's one thing.. but while hiking in Summer and trail running... my ideas have become more fine tuned. I used to take 2 poles with me hiking in the summer but I found I exuded more energy with the things, they got in the way alot and I was always dropping them. Now I only take ONE, I never drop it, I can switch hands with it, it's never in the way and if I get sick of it... its easier to carry one rather than two. For trail running however.. I leave it at home. Why? Because any up's are mostly scrambling where I would not use the pole... and down hill is best explained with the next topic... Descents.

Descents: While descending I croutch down to lower my center of gravity. I hit all rocks with the balls of my feet or toes (sometimes both) but never my heel. This takes a lot of calf work outs on my spare time at home, while sitting around or even driving. A Hiking pole would seriously get in the way, slow me down and at times put me in some compromising positions. How do I not twist an ankle or knee? I have no clue, I guess it all boils down to good foot placement and concentration, I also try not ot think about it at all... think HAPPY thoughts! Slowing down to a fast walk to build your confidence is a great idea.. it's called SPEED hiking. Go as fast as you can without running.

Rate of Speed: Depends on how far I am going, the terrain and what time I want to finish at. I try and average 3MPH or slightyl +/- for the day once completed. If a section is really rocky with as bunch of hazards (We'll se Garfield Ridge for example), it goes to as fast a hike I can without falling or killing myself. If any points warrant a quick run or jog, I take advantage of it and do the run sometimes faster than I should (physically), but I know there will be rest with a slower pace to follow. I guess rate of speed is up to your comfort level. For wakely this Saturday, I hope to average out at 6 MPH for 5 hours.

Would I trail run a mountain with a million hazards? Yeah.. why not? Added adventure!

Hope this helps.

SJ
 
Thanks for the responses. I have alot of my questions answered.
 
Footwear: for rough trail, I've been wearing Montrail Hurricane Ridge trail runners(very happy with these). For smoother trail, I have a pair of New Balance (806 I think) that are lighter, but not as protective.

No poles. Can't run with poles.

Sherpa John provided lots of great tips. Here's one for the downhills: I keep my feet turned out (if you're an ice climber, that's "pied en canard" or duckfoot). This almost completely eliminates amkle over supination (the "ankle rollover" sprain that is so common). Feels a little weird, and slows you down just a little as opposed to a road running stride, but it's a lot safer.
 
Footwear: I like a lighter, more flexible sole. I find it gives my feet a better feel of the trail, which results in better balance and stability. I've tried many styles over the years. I don't find that gore-tex is helpful. Socks tend to be medium weight wool for rocky running trails, thin wicking socks for forest trails. I am currently considering adding a pair of lightweight four-way stretch gaiters that I've seen a few people using on our M-M section hikes. Useful to help prevent scree in the shoe.

Poles: never for running

Pack: maybe a small fanny pack, usually not

Descending: for me, the trick is to keep a pace and rhythm going, thus "flowing" down the hill. I find it easier to bounce in place for a couple of beats while searching for the next foot placement than to stop entirely. I've recently begun incorporating this into hiking descents and find it *much* easier on my knees.

Terrain: the terrain you're willing to run in will change with the weather, your experience level, your shoes, and countless other variables. There are things I now run that I remember thinking there was no way I'd run, way back when. Even now, there are places where I'll run when it's dry, but slow down when it's wet.

Although you didn't ask, I include exercises specific to balance and - I guess the description is foot sensitivity - into my daily non-running routine. What I mean by foot sensitivity is being aware of the sensations my feet are taking in. Anything that helps your proprioception and agility will help with trail running.
 
Dugan,

Definitely get those little stretch gaiters! I have a pair. They are great, especially since I wear trail runners bushwhacking, too. I don't always use the gaiters on trail, but I swear by them bushwhacking. My current pair is made by OR; I got them at the Mountain Goat. I noticed the Mountaineer in Keene Valley now has in stock similar gaiters from Mountain Hardwear. The Mountain Hardwear gaiters look like they're made from some king of Schoeller fabric, and they feel a little tougher than the ORs.

Did you ever get the feeling when you're running downhill that you're really just dancing in the air in one place, and the trail is unrolling under you like a video? When I'm relaxed and "on", I sometimes get that sensation.

TCD
 
"Did you ever get the feeling when you're running downhill that you're really just dancing in the air in one place, and the trail is unrolling under you like a video? When I'm relaxed and "on", I sometimes get that sensation."

Yes! Exactly! That's when I feel like I could run forever...
 
I'll throw in my 2 cents too:

Shoes: I'm a big Salmomon fan. I've gone through several pairs of XA Pros over the years but am currently running in the new-this-year XA Pro 3D. These shoes supposedely have a lower center of gravity which translates into better stability and less turned ankles. I've done a presi traverse and 2 Pemi loops in them in the past 2 months and highly recommend them. On the down side the sole material is not as tough as the XA Pros. After only several runs, albeit long and rocky, they have significant wear on the soles. Another slight down side is the thinner soles. On a long rocky run, like the presi traverse where your running on sharp pointy rocks all day, you'll feel it by the end.

Socks: Smartwool all the way baby.

Ankels: I wear mechanically hinged ankle braces. Almost everybody I run into on the trail (both hikers and trail runners) ask me about them. I'm currently running in the McDavid brand ULTRA ankle brace. After painfully spraining my ankles several times :eek: I do not even think about trail running without them. To avoid chafing on my ankle, I wear the taller Smartwool Adrenaline 3/4 crew. I've wear my ankles braces all the time, including last year's Vermont 50, and never had chafing problems. I'm also happy to say that I've never turned an ankle either since I started wearing them last year.

Poles: Don't even think about it. I think poles are a hazard while running.

Pack: I'm in love with my new North Face Dogfish pack. It comes with a 2 liter hydration bag but I found I could stuff a 3 liter bag from an older CamelBack in no problem. This is essential on longer runs like the pemi loop. The materials are great. No extraneous straps bopping around. Just enough room to carry that extra wind breaker. There is even an emergency whistle built into the sternum strap.

Another very important item that newbies learn the hard way about is anti-chaffing stuff. I like BodyGlide and Hydropel. You MUST apply this everywhere you have skin rubbing together or on something (under arms, inner thighs, nipples, all over the unmentionables) or else you'll be sorry. You don't need it for short runs ( <10 miles) but it's a must on longer runs...especially when its hot and humid.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more specific questions.

TOM
 
Did you ever get the feeling when you're running downhill that you're really just dancing in the air in one place, and the trail is unrolling under you like a video? When I'm relaxed and "on", I sometimes get that sensation.
Totally. I get so focused that I perceive every stone and root passing underfoot and anticipate branches heading for my face. Every foot-plant is planned 5 steps in advance. I'm "In the zone."

On my feet:

The North Face Ultra Gore-Tex XCR Trail Running Shoe , SmartWool RBX Ultralight Socks , EMS Scrambler Gaiters

I tried some Salomon trail runners on at EMS and found that the hard plastic pieces on the side tended to dig into my foot. Very disappointed.

I agree that poles are a hazard when running, with one qualifier. When I'm on an overnight i.e. full pack, and get a burst of energy on the way back to the car, especially on a downhill, I plant my trekking poles like downhill ski poles while running at about 2/3-3/4 speed, a light jog.

Pack:

I have a cheap lumbar pack that I got from Target, two water bottles, enough room for the essentials and that's it. Works for me!
 
I have been trail running for a good 15 years and raced cross country. There is no special footwear to use, although a lot of companys now make trail running shoes. I have always used regular running shoes. I have tried trail shoes but really found no difference. You dont need poles it just takes practice. Start out slow until you get to know the trail and where the rocks/roots are. Once you get comfortable you will actually run faster on trail than roads. My trail times are faster than road. When you are on the trails you are too busy looking down rather than ahead. Plus it is just so much more fun hopping over things and flying down rocky hills. It is a much different experince on trails, more freedom. The last few years I trail run just to stay in shape. You get a better workout running for 30 minutes rather than walking for 30 minutes.
 
I just consider trail running anything that isn't pounding my feet on pavement. I try and usually work at least one off-pavement run a week to give my joints a break. Nature trails and local parks are perfect and first thing in the morning you are apt to see all kinds of cool wildlife.
 
I respectfully disagree with Snowshoe regarding footwear and trail running. Though "trail running" shoes are by no means a requirement to go trail running, I believe having the more specialized shoes will make your run more enjoyable and safer. If the trails you're running consist little more than a dirt path, than yes anything is fine. But if your planning to tackle any of the "hiking" trails in the Whites, I recommend the trail shoes.

The reverse holds true too. I do not wear my trail shoes on road runs because the soles do not provide enough cushioning. Its ironic but true that running on the roads is much rougher on your joints than the trails.

Trail running is SO much more fun than road running. I really hate to road run now and only do it to stay in shape for trail running.
 
all good advice. to overwhelm you even more i like the asics trabucos for trail runnin'. and smartwool socks are way the way to go. i tried some ems or rei housebrand look alikes that were cheaper and they didn't last nearly as long as smartwools.

and if there is a good trail near ya, go all the time. i'm lucky to live near the middlesex fells outside boston and run there all the time (at least 3 or 4 times a week). the skyline loop is a good one. i run it a lot and it made a recent half hike half run up the davis path to isolation seem pretty easy.

but i agree, trail runnin' has it over the roads. though runnin' on the roads is fun in that you can generally go faster and that's fun too.
 
Tho not a trail runner i will echo what Dugan said. IMO the key to descents is to "flow" like a skier. I once lingered on Kinsman too long and had to boogey down, made it in 45 minutes (4.5 miles, the first two rocky) and in the process really zoned out, was way cool. The key for me was "flowing" by landing on the front of my feet and barely touching down before hitting the next "mark." A good pair of grippy lightweight trail runners also really helped. In fact, i think trail running (or even hiking) in the Whites could be very dangerous w/o real grippy soles. :cool:
 
I suppose it depends on what you are loooking for.

I agree with snowshoe. I ran cross country and track in jr high, high school and college and haven't missed more than several weeks of running in the past 30 years. My first trail running days were in high school. I use regular running shoes, good ones though. When running, you're shoes are you're only really investment. I'd recommend getting good ones that fit well and suite your style of running. Typically I do training runs ~ 7 min/mi. It's awesome and I see an abundance of wildlife while running the trails in CT. I've taken a few falls mostly from roots, but no serious injuries other than a swollen thumb.
 
The stickier sole is the main factor that convinced me to make the switch from regular running shoes to trail runners. The lugs are usually different too, better able to cope with mud.
 
I hear ya. That could make a difference especially on slabs. I've slipped a few time on wet slabs even on slight pitches. Maybe that's the primary difference between regular running shoes and the trail runners. I always wondered what the difference was and thought that trail runners may be stiffer, but maybe it's the traction factor.
 
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