What are the hardest non technical climbs...

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dom15931

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...in the east? (class 4)

I was going to make a poll, but that leaves out the one's I dont know about, which I dont want to do! :D

So far I'd go for the Trap Dike on Colden (I know Eagle Slide is gonna likely beat this one out once I do it) The waterfall, variable exit point, open slide, and the fact there it isnt a marked trail do it for me. I loved this one!

Behind that would be the Huntington Ravine on Washington and then lesser extent the Knife Edge on Katahdin, though this one is really not technically difficult at all IMHO, but quite breathtaking.

Also I was definately surprised by the onslaught of Flume Slide Trail on Mt. Flume in Franconia. Quite relentless with a steep gain of 1800 feet in 0.7 Miles. Near bushwacking and slippery when wet with a very low level of foot traffic for the area. If you havn't done this one and your in the area check it out!

What are some other tough ones?
 
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I would say that the hardest climbs/hikes in maine are
-the knife edge on katahdin.
-the cathedral trail up katahdin is pretty difficult as well, very steep.
-the abol slide on katahdin is not scary in any places but it does rise a good 2,000 feet up the slide in about a mile, it'll hurt your lungs more than your mind.
-the precipice trail in acadia is only about a mile to the top, but it is all iron rungs, skirting cliffs, climbing over big rocks. I have done this trail several times and the knife edge several times, and i would say that the knife edge is a little more vertigo inducing but not by a lot. I have a few shots of the precipice in my pics, if you want to take a look.
 
There are certainly parts of the North Slide on Tri-Pyramid that deserve to be in this categlory. Also the Arrow Slide on North Hancock is a beast.
 
In addition to the ones above

-King Ravine
-Great gulf HW
-Madison gulf HW
-6 husbands


further down
-Carter Dome
-Either end of Wildcat
-East Osceola
-Willey
-Hi-Cannon
-North Kinsman
-Beaver Brk
and possible Zeacliff
 
Class rating descriptions

Could someone post the class ratings and descriptions?
Are they the same as the system developed by the Sierra Club for out west??
I'm not sure Zeacliff would qualify; there's really only one rock that required hand over foot scrambling. The rest of its just a steep uphill walk. I'd rate it Class II by Sierra Club standards.
Sabrina

Edited to add The Beckhorn on Dix in the Daks as one of the toughest full pack climbs. Lots of hand over foot here, tons of slab, and no ladders or assists.
 
I agree with King Tut with the precipice climb. I've seen several people freeze on the rung and ladder sections. With encouragement some continued; others retreated. It totally depends on your individual comfort zone. To me, it's not that difficult; you just need to concentate on what you are doing and respect the fact that certain sections are very steep regardless of any existing climbing aids. Having said that, I can still vividly remember many years ago, when my wife and I climbed it for the first time. There is a certain open ledge near the top, that is about 3-4 feet wide and maybe 25-30 feet long. Fixed into the rock face are hand rails; on the other side of the ledge is a sheer drop off. :eek: For those of us hikers who are not of the Indiana Jones type (including myself), a deep breath and moment of composure is needed here. I have named this the "oh sh..!!" ledge, after what I exclaimed when we first came upon it. Even though I have hiked the precipice a number of times since that initial day, I always give pause and reflection whenever I come to that spot. No matter how many times I hike it, it is still a blast!
 
I have always had a little vertigo on these types of things. Having a full pack and middle-aged knees totally transforms the situation.

This year, I was having a little difficulty near the top of Garfield (having come from Lil Haystack and it gettin' late & all), but was psyched for challenges by the time we reached Webster Cliff. Going down never got easy (Adams peak's descent was slow), but going up got a lot easier and more fun as we went. By the time we reached the end (Osgood on Madison), I really wanted more upward scrambles.

Hope this isn't too tangential....

Would also like to see the class descriptions, thanks.

--M.
 
una_dogger said:
Could someone post the class ratings and descriptions?
This is from memory--my reference books are unavailable:
* Class I: a sidewalk
* Class II: most trails
* Class III: requires the use of hands.
* Class IV: roped, but no fixed belays
* Class V: roped with fixed belays (ie techincal climbing)
* Class VI: requires use of gear for forward progress (ie aid climbing)

(Don't confuse class with grade: grade refers to the time required to complete a route.)

These may not be the "official" definitions, but should be close enough. In practice, assigning a class to a route is highly subjective. People's abilities also vary tremendously--a rope may be advisable for some individuals on easy class III terrain while others can comfortably unroped solo 5.10.

The whole question of "hardest non-technical climb" is ill defined. If I can unroped solo a 5.10 rock climb, then I can claim it is class III by the strict definitions.

BTW, many of the greats die on class III or IV terrain. (End of the trip fatigue, etc.)

Doug
 
Climbing Rating Systems (by request)

Information was gathered and edited for NE east coast reader's interests from book references listed at end of post.

Climbing ratings have been used to better describe the difficulty of a route for the purpose of informing future climbers what to expect.
Any given route is rated by the "most difficult" maneuver or obstacle over the routes entire length.
Often called "the crux”, which may only be a single move, however the entire route is rated accordingly.

There are many complicated climbing rating systems, but these are the basics for the purpose to briefly explain and give examples for our group forum.

In 1937 a modified European climbing rating system was introduced in the US as the Sierra Club System, then modified in 1950 to better describe rock climbing.
Today this system is widely used in the US for mountaineering and rock climbing.

Please note; Ropes are used in many other less demanding climb rating situations for simple safety and not to be considered exclusive to "technical" climbing, which is often a misunderstood point.

Class 1) Hiking on simple flat trails
NE Example: Wilderness Trail

Class 2) Simple scrambling with occasional use of hands.
NE Example: 99 % of all White Mt. summit climbs.

Class 3) Difficult scrambling. Actual handholds and footholds must be found, tested and used.
Steep or large talus boulders can be rated Class 3.
The angle of rock has steepened to the point where a fall might result in injury.
The traveler must use caution while moving across this type of landscape.
Often described as climbing the outside of a tall building on a steep narrow staircase with NO railing.
Scary but easy when compared to the next rating levels.
During remote backcountry mountaineering, a rope should be available to anyone who asks for it.
NE Example: Huntington's Ravine trail, Flume Slide trail, Tri P slide trail.

A steep snow gully or pass climb with crampons and ice axes, but no ropes, would also be considered Class 3.
NE Example: Any of Tuckerman's Ravine gullies.

Class 4) Terrain where handholds have become smaller and the exposure (air below your feet) has increased.
A rope, protection and belay should come into continuous use because a fall will likely result in death or very serious injury.
Loosely compared to climbing a ladder on the side of a tall building.
The footholds and handholds are there, but if you let go, that's the end.
Many backcountry mountaineering routes to summits are Class 4 in regions like the Rockies and Sierras.

Class 5) Steep and difficult "technical" rock climbing which includes the use of rope, fixed belaying and protection to prevent the leader from falling (and often expected.)
Climbers must use advanced climbing holds such as edging, friction smearing, laybacks, mantles, stemming, underclings, hand jams, toe jams, chimneying, finger and fist jams to make upward progress.
Protection consists of chocks, slings, bolts and pitons wedged or fastened to the rock.
At no time during upward progress by lead climber is he/she hanging on protection.
This is still considered "free climbing" ascent.
The Yosemite Decimal System (YDS) subdivides the Class 5 into specific decimal categories from 5.0 to 5.15b and is difficult alone just to explain (in this post)

Class A0-A5, C0-C5) Was Class 6. Technical Aid climbing is where the climber actually hangs off placed protection from move to move.
Often large overhanging cliffs are aided, however the high end of Class 5 is pushing the envelope ratings of overhanging cliff routes into "free climbing" status.

There are other mountaineering ratings which have to do with length of climb considering hours or days required and commitment risks. These are Grades I-VI.
Ice climbing has many rating systems based on region and difficulty.

Brownie
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resources:
The High Sierra, peaks passes & trails, by R.J. Secor
Mountaineering-The Freedom of the Hills 7th edition, by The Mountaineers Books
Sierra High Route, by Steve Roper
 
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king tut said:
I would say that the hardest climbs/hikes in maine are
-the knife edge on katahdin.
-the cathedral trail up katahdin is pretty difficult as well, very steep.
-the abol slide on katahdin is not scary in any places but it does rise a good 2,000 feet up the slide in about a mile, it'll hurt your lungs more than your mind.
-the precipice trail in acadia is only about a mile to the top, but it is all iron rungs, skirting cliffs, climbing over big rocks. I have done this trail several times and the knife edge several times, and i would say that the knife edge is a little more vertigo inducing but not by a lot. I have a few shots of the precipice in my pics, if you want to take a look.

Wow I have been on all of those, and ya that precipice trail is defanetly an interesting one. Didnt bother me because your holding on to steal bars, but it accually broke a friend of mine of his vertigo problems! He always talks about it.
 
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The precipice almost got me as well, I thought it was worse than Knife's Edge, it just seemed to play with my mind more. I finally got through it, but was shaking. That piece of the trail Wayward Son mentioned is also sloped away from the face, I have pictures of it. I'm glad I did it, but probably won't in the future, sorta like the Knife's Edge.
 
[

I thought both the Dike and Eagle are more of a class 3. Class 4 involves a rope and simulclimbing. Class 4 is more of a route like the Case Route on Wallface, and is much more difficult than some of the routes mentioned above.
 
The knife edge is a little more scary to me than the precipice b/c there is a much longer drop down to the bottom. I think that the precipice has more difficult sections than the knife edge, but you are never 2,000 feet straight above any points where you could fall. I had a pretty good case of vertigo a few years ago and i froze on both trails. quite terrifying. I was just sitting on the face of the cliffs, not being able to move. I did both these trails this year though, and they didn't bother me too much. i guess i am somewhat cured.
 
king tut said:
The knife edge is a little more scary to me than the precipice b/c there is a much longer drop down to the bottom. I think that the precipice has more difficult sections than the knife edge, but you are never 2,000 feet straight above any points where you could fall. I had a pretty good case of vertigo a few years ago and i froze on both trails. quite terrifying. I was just sitting on the face of the cliffs, not being able to move. I did both these trails this year though, and they didn't bother me too much. i guess i am somewhat cured.
Technical climbers make a point of separating objective (probable result of an event) hazards and subjective (perceived) hazards. If you are roped and climbing above an overhang with a 1000 ft drop it is scary (high subjective hazard), but actually quite safe (low objective hazard) because if you fall there is nothing to hit (the rope will catch you). On the other hand, if you are climbing 10 ft above a ledge, it feels much safer (low subjective hazard), but is actually much more dangerous (high objective hazard) because if you fall you are going to hit the ledge and likely to injure yourself.

Objective hazard for a particular situation is similar across individuals, but subjective hazard can vary widely depending on an individual's experience, state of mind, etc.

For some people, flying in a commercial airplane has high subjective hazard (but actually has a low objective hazard) while driving a car has low subjective hazard (but actually has a much higher objective hazard for distances that one might consider flying).

And while objective hazard is where the real dangers are, one factors in the probability of the event happening (eg it doesn't matter what the consequences of a fall are if you don't fall...).

Risk is probability of an event times the cost (eg injury) of the event.

In situations of combined subjective and objective hazard, an individual's reaction to the subjective factor can significantly increase the risk: eg freezing on Huntington Tr, Precipice Tr, or the Knife Edge.

Doug
 
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Brownie's mention of the Great Gully Trail on his list of hardest climbs in the Whites reminded me of just how "rugged" that trail was. It is very steep and there are a few places where the heart can stop...... the overhanging rock/slab almost made me soil myself.
 
South Baldface has a section of trail that is quite steep, requires hands.

My wife and I got about half way up Beaver Brook Trail about six years ago, so I've never actualy climbed the whole trail, but I remember it to be quite steep. I hope to return this autumn.

Happy Trails!
 
forestnome said:
My wife and I got about half way up Beaver Brook Trail about six years ago, so I've never actualy climbed the whole trail, but I remember it to be quite steep. I hope to return this autumn.

I remember being quite surprised at the difficulty of the Beaver Brook Trail. If it were more exposed, I think it would be a lot tougher. The Caps Ridge Trail up to Jefferson wasn't a walk in the park either (well... you know what I mean ;) )

Thanks to DougPaul and Brownie for the useful information!
 
NYBRAD said:
[

I thought both the Dike and Eagle are more of a class 3. Class 4 involves a rope and simulclimbing. Class 4 is more of a route like the Case Route on Wallface, and is much more difficult than some of the routes mentioned above.

I thought the Case Route is a 5.3. At least that is what most of the websites I've seen list it as.
 
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