Question about shelter etiquette...

Last weekend when Ophelia was dumping rain on the Whites, my two partners and I were set up at RMC's The Perch. Super place. We had the shelter to ourselves on Friday night, which was great.
Saturday night, however, we were told by the Grey Knob caretaker that another pair of hikers was staying there as well. Come to find out, that four other hikers were there, all of whom showed up after we had, and the Pirch, despite being advertised as an 8 person shelter, is really more like a 6-person job. Although we had our places claimed(first come first served) from the previous night, we also had a tent and tarp and bivy for the 3 of us. We waited until no one else volunteered, and then said that we would set up camp, reluctantly, in the rain.

What is the etiquette in this situation...I don't know if anyone else had a tent or hammock or somthing, but we felt it was annoying and frankly not right to have to get wet because others may not have come prepared with shelter of their own. Anyone face this or see where I'm coming from?

Generally, the rule is that if it's raining, there's always room for one more. If you already had your spaces staked out (mat and sleeping bag out marking your territory) and didn't want to tent, you could have just stayed put. I'm sure even if others had a tent, once you volunteered to move they probably thought you didn't mind.

I frankly always carry a tent with me on trips but much prefer to stay in a shelter, even if it is a squeeze, if it's raining so I can be sure my gear is dry in the morning. That said, I usually leave it to the late arrivals to figure out how to fit themselves in... after making sure my stuff isn't taking up more than a sleeping bag's worth of space.

- Ivy

poison ivy said:

Generally, the rule is that if it's raining, there's always room for one more. If you already had your spaces staked out (mat and sleeping bag out marking your territory) and didn't want to tent, you could have just stayed put. I'm sure even if others had a tent, once you volunteered to move they probably thought you didn't mind.

I frankly always carry a tent with me on trips but much prefer to stay in a shelter, even if it is a squeeze, if it's raining so I can be sure my gear is dry in the morning. That said, I usually leave it to the late arrivals to figure out how to fit themselves in... after making sure my stuff isn't taking up more than a sleeping bag's worth of space.

- Ivy

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i agree with all of this BUT the shelters are there for you and others NOT your gear!!! so i must say if the shelter is getting filled up then it's time to start moving gear out!!

just my $0.02

ADackR said:

i agree with all of this BUT the shelters are there for you and others NOT your gear!!! so i must say if the shelter is getting filled up then it's time to start moving gear out!!

just my $0.02

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I agree with you ADackR... gear should not be taking up valuable sleeping space. I should have been clearer... My gear is always either hanging from the nails in a shelter or under my head as a pillow.

- Ivy

poison ivy said:

I agree with you ADackR... gear should not be taking up valuable sleeping space. I should have been clearer... My gear is always either hanging from the nails in a shelter or under my head as a pillow.

- Ivy

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oh i know, i just wanted to make this point.. not pointing any fingers..

GNR said:

Although we had our places claimed(first come first served) from the previous night, we also had a tent and tarp and bivy for the 3 of us. We waited until no one else volunteered, and then said that we would set up camp, reluctantly, in the rain.

What is the etiquette in this situation...I don't know if anyone else had a tent or hammock or somthing, but we felt it was annoying and frankly not right to have to get wet because others may not have come prepared with shelter of their own. Anyone face this or see where I'm coming from?

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GNR,

upon arrival, we saw you had set up your 3 sleeping bags lengthwise in the shelter and stashed a pack in the corner; thus using up and seemingly claiming the whole shelter for three people, which, frankly, we found annoying. i am not trying to flame you or start any problems, but we did wonder why your sleeping bags were not set up the other way allowing others to comfortably use the shelter as well. We did move the pack over towards your sleeping bags and set up our bags in the other corner. We thought there was plenty of room for five people in the shelter.

BTW, we were fully prepared and did have a backpacking tarp if needed due to no shelter space. I don't know about the last two guys who showed up.
There was room, although it would have been tight for all 7 of us, including the late arriving party of two, to sleep in the shelter.

It was nice of y'all to give up your space(thank you), but not necessary as we all could have squeezed in there. If anything, maybe the last two guys who arrived should have hiked another 1/2 hour over to grey knob.

again, not to flame you, but I would say etiquette would be not to have three people set up in such a way as to try and take over an entire shelter for yourselves.

were y'all there when the last two guys showed up? did you mention to them there was a cabin a short distance away since the shelter was getting very full?

I do see your point - but I come from the school of - squeeze if in if you can! - esp in bad weather. always room for one more as stated above.

I am missing something - perch is 8 person shelter - - based on your numbers - I count 7 people there sat night (3 of you and the 4 other hikers)

I am also assuming you were all in there and it was just tight.

It sucks to have to set up camp - but if nobody else minded the tight space then.....

Just trying to think of myself coming in late and really wanting a spot in the rain - though if was heading to the perch - I would have a tent just in case.


you did the right thing though - you had the gear and bit the bullet - your a better person for it!!

as I was typing - we have the the other half of the story.

7 people for the perch - no business getting annoyed - more than enough room - its basically your problem (not to sound rude) if its tight.

I have never stayed at a shelter and I can see why I would always prefer to be in a tent....

sapblatt said:

I have never stayed at a shelter and I can see why I would always prefer to be in a tent....

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I am the same...I prefer my "space" so to speak. I also have trouble with snorers...I can't block them out..I mainly sit in shelters until its time to sleep, chat with others, etc..

Its tent or bivy for me

M

For me there are several points of ettiquitte tht I try to follow that are relevant here:

1) I try to set up with the assumption that more will come. I may leave sleeping gear or other things covering the space I expect to occupy. I am quick to make room or offer to make room for others up to the rated space.

2) If the weather is nasty, I try to squeeze in as many as want to be in. I think its acceptable though, when there is a squeeze - to encourage people to move on or set up the shelters they brought with them (I haven't done this, but I think its OK).

3) In the situation described at the start of the thread, I think its fine for new comers to want to stay in the shelter @ 7 for a place rated for 8. Anyone not comfortable can move to a tent. Usually, I would move on or set up my tent in that situation - but sometimes there are reasons I'd really want to stay in a shelter (e.g. to hang something up, because I made a hasty repair on my shelter and would rather not trust it...).

stop whinning and move over!
i've told more than one person who seemed reluctant to move or taking up too much space to get the f#%$@ out of the way!

pedxing said:

3) In the situation described at the start of the thread, I think its fine for new comers to want to stay in the shelter @ 7 for a place rated for 8. Anyone not comfortable can move to a tent.

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for those who have not been to the perch, please ignore any beta saying it sleeps eight, it can sleep 7....tightly! honestly, it really sleeps 6. i have no idea how 8 people could fit in there, sleeping pads would most definetly be overlapping

And that is the mistake...

Shelters are rated for the squeeze factor of nose to toes, not sleeping pad space. If you line the floor with mats and place bags on top, you'll get everyone in squeezing flesh.

Now to complicate matters... what if the first two people have their dogs? Does the dog have to sleep in the rain? ...also be leashed out of everyone's way? I don't really want a wet dog walking and wagging on my bag with it's muddy paws.

Another intolerable gripe... is OK for people to cook and eat in the shelter?

I avoid shelters at all cost just so I don't have to deal with this.

post'r boy said:

stop whinning and move over!
i've told more than one person who seemed reluctant to move or taking up too much space to get the f#%$@ out of the way!

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OH BOY, Have I missed you all these months

sli74

Okay, those who like it in a shelter... can you explain why?? I'm with the "rather tent" crowd. Way more comfortable (softer) and have plenty of space away from coughs, snores and mice!!

But, to stay with the originally posted etiquette question, when I'm tenting, am I also allowed to "use" the shelter and fire? An great advantage to the shelter is that there is a place to seat yourself at the edge of the shelter (to eat or linger comfortably). Is doing so acceptable shelter conduct??

post'r boy said:

stop whinning and move over!
i've told more than one person who seemed reluctant to move or taking up too much space to get the f#%$@ out of the way!

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Doing the AT is one thing. The Whites are another. This post looks to be somewhat about the "PERCH"
Know where you are going and make plans for shelter.

i like shelters when it's raining!! as did most thru-hikers on the trail this year. when the weather was nice it was the tent well away from any shelter. now as to those who like tenting next to shelters, could you please explain why??

this is spinning out of control - but its ok - I will use myself as an example - these are backcountry shelters - not the hilton - RMC has been know to accomodate folks in the past even it was full - which is a good thing. this ain't the case with this post - it was less than full.

Its common sense - people use shelters if they don't feel like setting up a tent, its rianing, want to travel lighter or whatever. I think it is also common sense if your using a shelter you expect it to be tight, maybe noisy, maybe have a dog there - and certainly cooking in the shelter - even if your tenting nearby. One night at hermit lake pretty sure a couple was doing the nasty next to me. Is that OK?? doesn't really bother me

You would swear it was a 5 star hotel in back bay the way some are going on. hehehe

bubba said:

Okay, those who like it in a shelter... can you explain why?? I'm with the "rather tent" crowd. Way more comfortable (softer) and have plenty of space away from coughs, snores and mice!!

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While I don't normally stay in a shelter, there have been a couple of times when it's been like a beacon in the night.

A few years back we were hiking to the Garfield tent platforms. We got a late start, it started raining and then on the way down to the site (before you go up to the site) , I was soaked and had convinced myself that I dodn't care who was in the shelter, I was staying there for the night and would pitch my tent in the morning.

I arrived at the shelter just as it got dark and there was only one other person staying there. She had here tent set up in it, but no problem, there was plenty of room for me. She immediately took her tent down, although it didn't matter to me.

I guess what I'm trying to say, love 'em or hate 'em, they do definetly serve a purpose. I would not have been a very happy camper if it was full and I had to set up a tent in the dark and in the pouring rain, although I would have if needed.

Glenn