Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 40

Thread: Are we ruining the earth or ruining the experience?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Puma concolor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    North of Albany, NY
    Posts
    885
    Quote Originally Posted by carole
    I think it is part of man’s fundamental arrogance to think he has as little of an influence on the earth as he does.
    Outstanding!!! We agree that man is arrogant. .

    Happy hiking.

  2. #17
    Senior Member Neil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    3,434
    The original question was: are we ruining the Earth or are we ruining the experience?
    It depends on whose experience? If a person hikes only for the views then the easier the route the better and no problems if the summit is crowded. For a list to ruin the experience is more difficult here.
    If one hikes for outstanding “opportunities of solitude” where the works of man (the visitor who does not remain) are not present then any trail or more than a very few people other than oneself would ruin the experience.

    If lists create trails and attract too many people for wilderness seekers then yes, lists ruin their experience. If lists create trails that may eventually become official maintained works of man then the view seeker would be quite happy.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Head's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Boonville, NY
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessmuk
    Don't forget that Verplank Colvin, in his effort to accurately survey the Adirondacks in the mid-late 1800's cleared the peaks of many of the summits where we now still enjoy the view. Without his agressive clear cutting and burning those bald peaks would (presumably) remain viewless today. So 130+ years later it does matter. We are generally a bit less aggressive today... but only to a degree.
    In my original post, I guess I should have stated more clearly (I'm famous for leaving open ended posts ). I was referring to the destruction caused by trails/herd paths. IF (hypothetically) we were to let things go for the next 100 years(by not hiking on trails), mother nature would fix itself. (trails would be overgrown, herd paths grown in, etc.) Clear cutting would definatley be a pretty visable scar to the landscape beyond 100 years...case in point, the above quote. Hopefully, the next generation of hikers, as well as ours, contiues to follow the 'Leave no trace' ideals so these scars on the wilderness will be minimal.
    The Worlds Most Entertaining Hiking Website BirdHead Studios , Northeast 111 Videos and BH You Tube

  4. #19
    Senior Member Pete_Hickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Hull, Quebec. Avatar: Wanna come out and play?
    Posts
    1,976
    Quote Originally Posted by Head
    ......, contiues to follow the 'Leave no trace' ideals so these scars on the wilderness will be minimal.
    The thing is that LNT is not really possible, "Leave LESS" Trace" is more like what it is.

    So, for a given area of land, it may be able to support, say 50 hikers/campers a year who do NOT practive LNT, and 200 a year if they do. The provblem is that we're sending in 300.

    Why is it that when we experience a good hike, we want to share it, and have others do it too?

    You never hear a guy saying, "I had a great time with my wife last night. You should try her." Not even to his best friend. But you will hear someone telling scores of strangers to climb some great peak.
    There's no place like 127.0.0.1

  5. #20
    Senior Member Puck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete_Hickey
    You never hear a guy saying, "I had a great time with my wife last night. You should try her." Not even to his best friend. But you will hear someone telling scores of strangers to climb some great peak.
    Who could argue with that! There are some secrets I keep; my favorite fishing hole, my favorite berry patch and owl nesting sites.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Pete_Hickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Hull, Quebec. Avatar: Wanna come out and play?
    Posts
    1,976
    Quote Originally Posted by Puck
    Who could argue with that! There are some secrets I keep; my favorite fishing hole, my favorite berry patch and owl nesting sites.
    Because you KNOW what would happen if you told too many people, right?
    Last edited by Pete_Hickey; 10-17-2005 at 01:00 PM.
    There's no place like 127.0.0.1

  7. #22
    Senior Member Nessmuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    western 'daks
    Posts
    863
    Quote Originally Posted by Puck
    Who could argue with that! There are some secrets I keep; my favorite fishing hole, my favorite berry patch and owl nesting sites.
    One of the reasons I with mixed feelings subscribe to the "Adirondack Explorer" is to find out which of my own "best kept secrets" they are giving away this month.
    "She's all my fancy painted her, she's lovely, she is light. She waltzes on the waves by day and rests with me at night." - Nessmuk, Forest and Stream, July 21, 1880 [of the Wood Drake Canoe built for him by Rushton]

  8. #23
    Senior Member Neil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    3,434
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete_Hickey
    You never hear a guy saying, "I had a great time with my wife last night. You should try her." Not even to his best friend. But you will hear someone telling scores of strangers to climb some great peak.
    That is priceless, truly priceless. Whatever they're paying you Pete, it aint enough!


    However, unlike their wives, (or fishing spot) how many guys are going to go back and re-climb Cheney Cobble or Calamity Mtn? (Sorry for all the ADK references, it's all I know) Maybe knowing in the back of their minds that they will never be going back makes it easier to share the info.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Puck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessmuk
    One of the reasons I with mixed feelings subscribe to the "Adirondack Explorer" is to find out which of my own "best kept secrets" they are giving away this month.
    My friend's secret spot was on the cover of an LL Bean Catalog. The best keppt secrets are shared 20,000 of your closest friends.

  10. #25
    Senior Member spaddock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Ottawa - Avatar: Hello Mr. 46
    Posts
    562
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete_Hickey
    Why is it that when we experience a good hike, we want to share it, and have others do it too?
    So nobody should write a guidebook, ever?


    Quote Originally Posted by Pete_Hickey
    You never hear a guy saying, "I had a great time with my wife last night. You should try her." Not even to his best friend. But you will hear someone telling scores of strangers to climb some great peak
    I know you were using this as an over the top example, but in the way you described, my wife belongs to me, just as I belong to her. Whereas the forest belongs to everybody.

    It's just human nature that when somebody experiences something they consider fantastic, they want to share it with others. Some tell a few good friends, others post it on the Internet. Change your example from "wife", to "girl/guy" you met at a bar and I bet word would get out around locker rooms pretty quickly.

    It's also pretty tough not to tell people where you go. Take my canoeing trip last July. Buddy says: "Where'd you go for vacation", Me: "Canoeing near Sudbury", Buddy: "Oh yeah, which lakes?", Me: "I don't want to say", Buddy: "Come on, I want to hear about it". Doesn't work too well, at least in my experience.

    I agree with Neil, that everybody is out there for a different experience. I definitely have a "better" experience when there are less crowds on the trail. For that reason I try not to hike in the summer, and when I do, not park at the Loj. Just like I wouldn't want to go to Disney World over Christmas or Spring Break.


    -Shayne

  11. #26
    Senior Member Rik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Nosing around
    Posts
    936
    Quote Originally Posted by spaddock
    So nobody should write a guidebook, ever?




    -Shayne
    This question has been in my mind since these (summit registers, are we ruining...,list dilemma,....) threads came up. Mentioned has been the influence of the internet, lists, word of mouth, peakbagging clubs, and more, but what about the guidebooks? Where did I first see a list? ADks High Peaks guide lists the hundred highest right in the back. Then I looked at the White Mountain Guide. Another list. Catskill guide? Another list. As a newcomer starting a new hobby one could easily think "this is hiking". I found my way up the 46 with a guide book and mediocre map skills as the book told me where to go. I think you can get the New England Highest Hundred list with published hints just by asking. In Bruce Scofield's book "Highpeaks of the Northeast" he puts in several lists and then compiles one of his own at the back of the book. Should this be it's own thread?
    Safety is in the eye of the beholder

  12. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    1,306
    Quote Originally Posted by Rik
    ... Where did I first see a list? ... Should this be it's own thread?
    I think this fits in right here.

  13. #28
    Senior Member arghman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Goffstown, NH Avatar: No Once-lers or thneeds
    Posts
    1,352
    Quote Originally Posted by spaddock
    So nobody should write a guidebook, ever?
    I think there's a happy medium here. There's an area in Maine I visit each year which has a large number of "critical areas" (areas of critical ecological value). There are some hiking trails in the area, the key is that they focus this (relatively) low-impact tourism into a very small portion of the area as a whole.

    Yes it would be better for the environment in any area if there were no hikers, but it's only a very small portion, and the fact that the area gets used and valued also leads to a sense of pride/ownership/support when it comes to securing & protecting these sorts of areas in the future. Also, the really sensitive areas will generally be off limits (either explicitly, or by not having any trails there on purpose).
    --Jason
    moose plates help conserve New Hampshire's natural heritage
    New book from NHNHB: The Nature of New Hampshire

  14. #29
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    349
    i'm wondering if anyone has come up with a solution yet??
    Last edited by post'r boy; 10-17-2005 at 05:21 PM.

  15. #30
    Senior Member spaddock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Ottawa - Avatar: Hello Mr. 46
    Posts
    562
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil
    However, unlike their wives, (or fishing spot) how many guys are going to go back and re-climb Cheney Cobble or Calamity Mtn? Maybe knowing in the back of their minds that they will never be going back makes it easier to share the info.
    I believe that would take us back to Mavs point....

    To me, its boils down to individual selfishness.
    If you were the first to climb Everest, could you really keep that bottled up inside?


    -Shayne

Similar Threads

  1. Earth quake!!!
    By woodstrider in forum General Backcountry
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 08-25-2011, 09:39 AM
  2. Earth quake!!!
    By woodstrider in forum Q&A - New York
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 08-24-2011, 12:24 PM
  3. PBS American Experience video: Earth Days
    By Chip in forum General Backcountry
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-22-2010, 08:22 PM
  4. Google Earth
    By spencer in forum General Backcountry
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 06-30-2006, 07:53 PM
  5. Google Earth 4.0 Better Zoom
    By spaddock in forum General Backcountry
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-16-2006, 02:35 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •