Presidential Traverse

I have never hiked any of the Presidentials so I wanted to do a traverse this weekend before they get too crazy. I was just wondering if some of you could offer your wisdom and advise in terms of gear and methods. I want to do it in one day (starting at 1am) rather than two so I don't have to carry my heavy pack. I have gortex boots and gaiters, lots of winter gear, and access to crampons. The Mount Washington Observatory has reported snow up to 3' and icy conditions already so I am getting a little concerned. There are a few of us going with some experience but I wanted to get some advice from all of you. Thanks a lot in advance.

-Tomahawk

Yer going to get a million replies and warnings on this one!

The conditions above treeline are unknown now, probably. You know there's snow on Washington but on all the peaks? I would have a bail-out car or two and certainly not go alone. Walking with crampons or through the snow will slow you down as will ice. Exp. with an ice axe might be helpful in some places.

-Dr. Wu

I have never hiked any of the Presidentials so I wanted to do a traverse this weekend before they get too crazy.

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Speaking of "crazy". You've never hiked the Presidentials before and you'd like to start out with a traverse.....and just after they've received nearly 3 feet of snow & ice and winds are averaging 70mph over the last 24 hours.

I would recommend you become familiar with the area a little before you try a traverse in winter-like conditions. Visibility can go from fair to horrible is just an hour or two. Understanding the trails and bailout options is critical.

Yer going to get a million replies and warnings on this one!

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Maybe not quite a million.

Actually, the first time I hiked in the Presidentials, I did the Traverse, but of course, it was in June with pretty much snow-free except for a short patch of snow on Jefferson.

If you can wait another year, I'm running a presi traverse in 2006... Start of details here



jay

heres some of the conditions you may encounter....looks like its begun folks...


http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051018/NEWS0201/51018003


M

As I said, I will be hiking with people who have done the traverse multiple times so that shouldn't be a problem. I have already decided that we will park at least one car half-way in case we decide to bail. I have done multiple 20+ mile hikes in the past and am very ambitious so I would love to complete this. If everyone decides that it is a bad idea then we will hike another range. But if it is possible I really want to go balls-to-the wall this weekend!

Wow that is quite a plan. I agree with dr. wu on the potential numbers
Certainly the concensus will be to check the weather reports closely, plan a few bailout points, (Caps Ridge, Jewell Trail, maybe even Edmands Path). get prepared for a long day and night with no open huts other than Mizpah at the end. Even Mt. Washington is buttoning up now. (no chillidogs wahh)
I went from Appalachia to Pierce and down to Crawfords back in July in perfect weather conditions and it took me 12 hours. Im sure it would be longer now with wind and a little snow on the rocks. I climbed Ellen and Abraham in VT. yesterday and the snow seemed to start at about 3800' so that would cover about 80% of your route. Its not like it was drifting in places but its still gonna slow you down a few times.
Good luck and take care!

Forget about what's on the wall and focus on keeping them out of the snow. GOOD LUCK

I did a 1 day N-S Presi Traverse in Aug and it was an awesome experience..

I carried a nalgene bottle of water and refilled at each hut but remember that time flies while you are at the huts / Washington summit.. Be sure to watch your watch and not over-extend your rest period.

bring more energy bars and chocolate than usual.

Plan ahead with several pre-washington bail-out routes and several post-washington bail out routes..

Some loose thoughts....

1) DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH - One of the most notorious deaths in recent memory up there was related to a guy who trusted his "more experienced" partner. Turns out neither of them knew all of the bail outs, shelter or locations for help. This is not meant to dismiss your buds abilities in the slightest, so please don't take offense. None is meant. Just saying that you and you alone need to be responsible for your own well being. You yourself should know the pros and cons of every possible bail out trail and the compass bearing to get you there. You should know where every shelter is. Some bail outs will take you into the teeth of a gale. Others will drop you into Wilderness Areas at least another day from any road. Get a map, the AMC guide and start reading.

2) EXPECT FULL WINTER CONDITIONS ONLY WORSE - Expect to get wet with rain in the 30s and 40s below treeline with insulating layers and shell totally soaked. Then, expect full winter conditions up to and including white out conditions above treeline. That's just the way October and November can be. In many ways, December through Febuary are easier cause they're drier. Your will be (or should be) a bit heavy with extra warm parkas and crampons. I would not go up there with a party of 3 or more without some bivy gear (pads and bivy sack, possibly sleeping bag) shared so that an injured person has a prayer.

3) EXPECT IT TO BE HARDER THAN 20 MILES IN OTHER PLACES - Most folks who've done big miles in other places find milage in the Presis to be noticably harder. In short, you are stepping from pointy rock to pointy rock with almost every step once you get above 3500'. You may want to adjust your expectations downward. If this is your first trip up there and if your buds have never done a winter traverse, you might do better to set your sites on Adams or Jefferson as a day hike from Rt 2. This will give you a sense of the place and set the stage for a run at it next year.

Hope this helps,

I, for one, admire your ambition. I don't want to encourage you to do anything foolish, but it is entirely possible that you could successfully complete this hike this weekend.

In my experience, going from North to South and starting on the Valley Way trail would be the easiest and most preferable way to begin. You didn't indicate whether you would be summiting any or all of the Presi's along the way. I found Adams to be the trickiest in the winter, with Jefferson a close second.

Dress in layers and be prepared for wind. If it is particularly windy you may have trouble with chapped lips, frostbite on your nose, etc... Facial protection and (obviously) gloves are quite important. Managing your perspiration as well as the precipitation is key to keeping your body temperature up. Drink more fluids and eat more snacks that you think you might need since adrenaline can disguise hunger and the need for energy.

Finally, use book time as a rough guide but don't over-do it. Most people can get above treeline in less than 2 to 3 hours from Valley Way. Starting at 1 AM would leave you wandering around for a couple hours up there before dawn. I'd start at 5 AM and risk hiking the Crawford Path in the dark for an hour or two if it comes down to that. The Southern Presi's aren't quite as imposing as their Northern brethren. Use care, caution, and common sense, and you will be just fine. Good luck!

Thanks for the advice everyone! The group size has increased to four and the other three have done the Presi's before. We all have crampons, an ice axe, full winter gear including goggles, balaclavas, hats, gortex gloves, and gaiters. We plan on leaving around midnight and hiking until we finish. In addition, we are leaving a car at the bottom of the cog railway which leaves at least 2 or 3 exit points in addition to the option of hitch-hiking. I'll take lots of photos and will hopefully find somewhere that has cell phone reception to call my dad as it will be his birthday (mine is today)! So all in all we should have a good time and sore legs by the end of it with a great trip report to share with all of you! Thanks again for the advice and keep it coming.

-Tomahawk

FYI: The current weather forecast is for conditions to start going downhill Saturday afternoon with a Noreaster on Sunday. Keep an eye on the sky!!

Do your own research in case you become seperated from the group (possible whiteout, slip & fall)

What time of year did your friends do the trip before? Weather will be a key, does everyone have same drive? Have you hiked with this groups in bad weather before? Does everyone have same idea of what is bad winter weather? If I said define this weather as good bad, fair, average or poor: 25 degrees, 150 feet visibility, snow showers & 40 MPH, you'd get a lot of different answers. Does everyone in your group feel the same way? What does 50 or 60 MPH wind do to your answer?

Some people will summit even if that means crawling to stay out of the wind, that's not me, is that anyone in your group? Between Edmands Col & Washington is no place to find out.

Being out in that weather for most of the day is a lot worse than doing say Lower Wolf Jaw, Armstrong & Gothics ADK's where you get lots of tree cover except a small piece of Armstrong & a bunch of terrain on Gothics. (Or The Twins & Galehead where only South Twin presents any real exposure.)

Info on a winter Prezzie traverse can be found at http://chauvinguides.com/PresiTraverse/presiguide.htm.
Note in particular the Wheout Navigation Plan and the Escape Routes.

Also, the coordinates are NAD-27 datum.

Doug

Mike P. said:

What time of year did your friends do the trip before? Weather will be a key, does everyone have same drive? Have you hiked with this groups in bad weather before? Does everyone have same idea of what is bad winter weather? If I said define this weather as good bad, fair, average or poor: 25 degrees, 150 feet visibility, snow showers & 40 MPH, you'd get a lot of different answers. Does everyone in your group feel the same way? What does 50 or 60 MPH wind do to your answer?

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This is an excellent question and observation.

IME, these sorts of scenarios are not only commonplace but the source of the most team friction (and open conflict) and poor safety decisions. This gets worse when you mix in personal ambitions, drives, fears and insecurities. Things get really bad really fast. I've seen groups split in the face of a gale over these things, a situation that should be avoided.

Problem is, I have no good advice on how to figure this out ahead of time. How does everybody get on the same page about how they are going to agree to make decisions when it hits the fan?

One possible solution is to establish several go/no-go points along the way where you all commit ahead of time to re-evaluate the decisions. Some that seem to be obvious places for this include: Mad hut, Thunderstorm Junction, Edmonds Col (retreat via perch/randolph path), junction with Jewell, Washingon (retreat via lion head), junction Ammonusuc Ravine.

IMO, the Edmunds Col decision point may be the most critical. There aren't any really good retreat options between Edmunds and the Washington Summit. I would consider that to be a real point of no return, so to speak.

Might be really good to decide on a decision rule ahead of time. Majority vote often leads to hard feelings. Veto power to all for retreat is safer but the will piss of the ambitious. Choosing a trip leader with final say is yet another option.

I think these guys are dialed in pretty good - 3 out of 4 have done it - know the routes, they have bail out options - I think starting at 1am is a damn good desion - high pressure is suppsed to hold thru most the day on sat, winds appear to be light so far - one thing would be snow drifts - not sure how deep they are up there - but this could possible slow you down. one spot is the gulfside between adams and edmunds col - they can get deep there - probably not too bad yet - but if its noon and your at edmunds col - ya might want to bail. not to over analyze this to a t - just use your head and don't be afraid to head down if the poop hits the fan. risk is part of the deal up there if you didn't take the risk you wopuldn't leave applachia - just don't be scared to bail, stick together and your as strong as the weak link -

have fun - I am sure you will be fine. I might see ya on washington - heading up early sat am.

dave.m said:

IMO, the Edmunds Col decision point may be the most critical. There aren't any really good retreat options between Edmunds and the Washington Summit.

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Jewell Tr?

Of couse, Edmunds Col itself could be impassable due to high winds...

In the Washington area, I would prefer to escape to Marshfield base because it would easier to get to a spotted car or Crawford Path trailhead. However, the upper part of Jewel Tr and the approach to Ammo Ravine would be fully exposed to the prevailing winds.

Also where to spot cars: 1 at Applachia--covers northern routes between Madison and Jefferson, 1 at Crawfords--covers escapes to the NW from Clay to Pierce. If they have a third car, perhaps Marshfield base and then a fourth might be placed at Pinkham.

We completed the Northern Presidentials on this trip and the report can be seen at http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9790. Thanks for all of the replies!

-Tomahawk