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Thread: To Those using the Trail Conditions to Debate

  1. #1
    Moderator Peakbagr's Avatar
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    To Those using the Trail Conditions to Debate

    For those of you who feel its necessary to respond to the Crane
    Mt flame bait left by the Crane Mt poster.
    Please take your dispute outside VFTT.

    No one wants to read the rants as it will inevitably lead to further escalation. In any case, appropriate and calm discussion of what appears in Trail Conditions belongs here.

    Peakbagr

  2. #2
    Senior Member maineguy's Avatar
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    Good point. Why can't people just give the freaking condition of the trail? I don't understand why they must bore me with the excruciating details of the trip ("after a long drive we stopped at Stewarts for some much deserved coffee before picking up fluffy at her house and then arrived at the trailhead, blah, blah blah ")

    Honestly, I don't care about the other details, and most importantly, those details should not be posted in trail conditions but in trip reports.

  3. #3
    Registered User DeadFred's Avatar
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    Peakbagr,

    Thanks for making this excellent point. I have noticed some recent digression in the trail condition reports as well.

    TO ALL: Please, please, please, do not judge all of us dog owners and our dogs as bad and inconsiderate. What this guy did (and allowed his dogs to do) is a disgrace to all good dog owners and hikers.

    Dogs are like people, there are good and bad ones. Anyone who has ever encountered Dakota and I on the trails knows how respectful we are of the rules and regs (even if I hate the leash reg.) and what a good dog she is. Likewise, I have encountered good and bad dogs on the trail. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not judge all of the dogs as a detriment to good ethics in the backcountry. Remember, dog OWNERS are more often the problem (as we have seen with the incident in question) than the DOG. It is often the traits of the owner reflected in the dog, not the traits of the dog reflected in the owner that is the problem.

    Thanks for understanding the difference.

    DeadFred

  4. #4
    Senior Member Wild's Avatar
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    The original post reminds me of the Doreen Post from a few years back. Anybody remember that one?

  5. #5
    Moderator Peakbagr's Avatar
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    Alpine,

    Excellent idea. I do know from Darren that the way the Program is written, getting access to the regular VFTT discussion boards is thru an off the shelf shell.
    I believe he wrote the program for the Trail Conditions, and setting that up with logins and passwords could be difficult if not impossible.
    Perhaps Trail Conditions as one of the "regular" VFTT forums could be the answer.

    As to the original Crane Mtn Trail Conditions. I suspect the poster knew exactly the type of response they were looking for. They were trolling and the flame bait worked, unfortunately.

    Peakbagr

  6. #6
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    That post was so idiotic it almost seems to have been a plant. Inappropriate.....but mildly entertaining. If it is legit, it is even more entertaining. Idiotic, but entertaining.

  7. #7
    Senior Member beverly's Avatar
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    I too would like to see Trail Conditions morphed into it's own forum. The problem with the set-up now:

    1. There is no log in, as AS pointed out - anonymous posters aren't accountable.
    2. There's no way to ask questions, if the poster doesn't list an email, which often happens.
    3. There is no way to edit.
    4. There is no way to effectively search the postings.
    5. Many of the posts are combination conditions/trip reports and it is often difficult to read through them to get helpful information. If I see a paragraph that goes on for 20 or 30 lines - I lose interest!

    Would it be unworkable to have a "trail condition" forum for each state?

  8. #8
    Senior Member sli74's Avatar
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    The only issue I could see with making Trail Conditions a "forum" will be that many folks don't participate here but do post their Trail Conditions report, there may be people who wouldn't go through the "trouble" of logging in to post a report and we may lose some activity. Then again, maybe not? This is the first time I've seen this happening to this extent under Trail Conditions. Maybe a way to "edit" and remove off topic posts while keeping everything else the same might be the way to go . . .

    sli74

  9. #9
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    I can understand what you are getting at Ann, but I respectfully disagree. While a log in would eliminate anonymous posts and thereby, hopefully, inappropriate posts, from my observations, this is not a common/big problem.

    Plus it would limit the posting of Trail Conditions. The forum has a Trip Reports section already and as far as searching goes, while that would be nice, the vast majority of the knowledable folk out there already peruse this forum and, as I have often been the happy benefactor of, are more than willing to share their knowledge.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Doc McPeak's Avatar
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    Peakbagr, I agree that the trip conditions are no place for retorts like that.... but, in the several years I have been scoping conditions here (and on the old system) there has always been the very isolated and occasional controversial post, and various responses coming back at it.

    I'd say they've totaled less than 1/2 of 1% of all the good reports posted. That's like batting .995 in baseball.

    This guy didn't throw up any "flame bait", he wrote a trip report where one of his dogs scared a bear up a tree, and he was surprised. He didn't write it was "fun," he wrote it was "funny," meaning peculier.

    As far as dogs treeing bears... that's exactly how bears used to be kept honest. By predators like mountain lions and wolves keeping these bears in check within the chain of command. What do you think is having all the success with the bear problems out west? DOGS. Bears have been treed for eons, I'm sure this one didn't lose a beat.

    I've read a ton of trip conditions and I've never held any of the info as gospel. The "guide books" have enough errors in them already! Sorry, I think we've all got better things to do with our time and energy than to get worked up over such trivial matters.
    "We sit together,
    the mountains and I,
    until only the mountain remains."

    -- Li Po (701-762 A.D.)

  11. #11
    Moderator Peakbagr's Avatar
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    I love to read the Trails conditions. I have folders for Catskills, ADKS, Bushwacks, and 100 Highest. Anytime I see an interesting report, I cut and paste it for later review. Gives me lots of great ideas for trips of my own.
    Whether the post was flamebait or not, the reponses to it were inappropriate. I agree that the vast majority of trail conditions are legit, but all it takes is one to start another war.
    Don't you recall some of the epic battles around here when people didn't have to log in?

  12. #12
    Senior Member Grumpy's Avatar
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    Count me in with Doc McPeak and AlpineSummit on this. The Trail Conditions part of this site is far from broken and needs no fixin'. I don't know if the original Crane Mountain post was legit or a troll. But the flamers definitely were out of line, and their entries ripe for deletion.

    Remember the Richard Bern TC posts of not so awful long ago? A nice counterpoint to and harmless relief from the dry, "crampons a necessity" remarks, in most ways. Our dignified site can stand a bit of that sort of thing now and then, can't it?

    G.

  13. #13
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    I dont understand why people have to excercise their writing talents on trail reports.
    If some one wants to write a small novel, do it here.
    Also ..... whats wrong with a bear being treed? If it happened more their would be less bear problems.
    steveo

  14. #14
    Senior Member beverly's Avatar
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    The Trail Conditions aspect of this site is just so clunky, and susceptible to misuse. When Darren updated VFTT, it took a while for people to adjust to the new software, me included. But now I think everyone much prefers the new interface. Why not do the same for Trail Conditions?

  15. #15
    Senior Member rdl's Avatar
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    I guess I'm pretty content with the trail conditions functionality as is. Considering the trail conditions section is open to anonymous posting I think the amount of inappropriate posts is pretty low. I agree that some of the trail conditions posts get a little wordy but I treat that the same as any thread I have little interest in -- I don't read it.

    And excellent suggestion from Peakbagr about copying/pasting reports that may be of interest down the road -- I'm going to start doing that.

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