QR Codes on the Trail

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Technology

Ok I will play devil's advocate on this one. Lets say these "bar codes" work very well and give a megabyte (pun) of information to these smart phones. All the information you will every need, plus help for rescues.

So now "Joe" hiker, who hikes only once or twice a year discovers this new technology and becomes depended on it. He makes his list of items to bring on the next hike and leaves out compass (I still dont have nor want a gps) and map. He leaves the trailhead and scans his phone and heads out. Then he reaches the third intersection of the day and goes to scan the trail sign but wait....it is missing. Now he standing there totally confused and has no idea where to go next.

Technology, IMO is not necessary and has become to unreliable.
 
walker said:
At a get-together over the week-end, I raised the question about incorporating QR Codes in Trail Signs in the White. This group consisted of both hikes and non-hikes. After a spirited and lengthy exchange of thoughts (fueled by good food and better alcohol) we came to the conclusion:

Putting the QR Codes on the trail sign at the trail heads might help lower the amount of SAR responses. Given the fact that mostly newbie (or tourists with no experience) would be looking up the info about the trail. Giving them the info needed to safely complete the trail, such as trail length, elevation gain, suggested time needed, where the trail goes (is it a loop or not), what trail intersects the trail, and what equipment might be needed (including the basic ten / this info could be changed season to season), might be a good thing.

Most of the trail signs a couple of miles or more in could be QR Code free. Signs this far in are most likely only seen by hikers with more than the basic experience (and most likely out of cell range).

The more information you can put out there, the the better off every body is.

See You On The Trail....(Trying NOT to walk by the unnoticed trail sign)....Walker

PS...Unfortunately, with the amount of vandalism the trail signs take, I think the idea is for not, at least in the Whites :(

PPS...By no means am I using the term "Newbie" in a derogatory manner. We (at least speaking for myself) were all "newbies". Sometimes I'm surprised by the fact I'm still around to hike with some of the stupid things I did.
Click to expand...

I understand some of your points and all not directly pointed at the Whites. Although you are presuming that your hypothetical "Newbie" has a cell phone to begin with let alone one that reads these QR Codes. We already have a level of irresponsibility . Now we would be adding another factor to the equation of assumption and potential negligence. I can just see it as you cross the State Line into New Hampshire.: "Welcome to New Hampshire" You better be carrying a Cell Phone because if you don't when we find your arse it's going to court"!
 
skiguy said:
Although you are presuming that your hypothetical "Newbie" has a cell phone to begin with let alone one that reads these QR Codes.
Click to expand...

No, it must means that "newbies" who DO have a QR-reading smart phones will have access to information that might help them stay out of trouble. Those who don't will simply remain in the same boat they're in now (and access/lack of acccess to information doesn't seem to have any relation to NH's eagerness to fine people)

I don't think I, personally, would want to make use of QR codes on the trail. But then I don't have a gps, either. I do think it's worth remembering that map, compass and trail blazes were all new technologies at one point in time.
 
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griffin said:
No, it must means that "newbies" who DO have a QR-reading smart phones will have access to information that might help them stay out of trouble.
Click to expand...

Maybe, that's if they know how to use them. I'll stick to the Trailhead Sign warnings. We must learn to read first then utilize the cruthches that technology gives us.
 
griffin said:
Those who don't will simply remain in the same boat they're in now (and access/lack of acccess to information doesn't seem to have any relation to NH's eagerness to fine people)
Click to expand...

:DI think it might be possible that skiguy could be trying to be a little facetious.;)
 
I don't think it's fair to the newer hikers to lump them all together as ignorant newbs. I believe that many new hikers are pretty safety-oriented and learning as they go. Hiking in areas unknown to you isn't so much a newbie trait, it's just ignorance.

I was a newbie 30 or so years ago, but I made very sure I knew where I was at all times. Now, with advanced weather info widely available, it's that much safer to wander far on trails and get back safely. If this new tech can help people that want to wander around, oblivious to their surroundings, that's fine. Let's just call it what it is.

I still contend that most hikers with capable cell phones will already have the trail/weather info on their phones, except the oblivious, of course.
 
I'm trying to figure out the difference between this conversation and the one a few years ago about the evils/benefits of GPS units.
Click to expand...

Well, one difference it that carrying a GPS is a personal choice. Looking at links to the interwebs in the woods is a choice some people wouldn't care to make.;)

**disclaimer** I didn't read the old thread on GPS units
 
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bikehikeskifish said:
Not to mention trails themselves :rolleyes:

Tim
Click to expand...


Thanks, Tim for pointing that out. If taking a mountain in its pristine condition and cutting trees, moving rocks, making water runoffs, erecting man made bridges over rivers and building huts is technologically good, then why don't they build hundreds, no thousands of more trails in the White's???????????

If humankind is so "technologically" smart, then why were the early invaders ( I mean settlers ) able to drink water from the East, Hudson and Charles River without filtering it????? Am I to understand that this land, water and air we call "America" is better off today then it was before the settlers came with their technology?????


On the table sits a half glass of water (technology), one says it is half full, the other half empty. Both answers ARE correct it is just a matter of perspective.

BTW I LOVE MY MP-3 PLAYER!
 
I still think these would be a fine idea in urban areas. Zoos or aquariums, especially. Imagine the fun kids would have scanning the QR code on an exhibit and being taken to a website with further information about what they're looking at. They could bookmark their favorites to read more about later at home. That's a usage model I'd be in favor of seeing. There are other uses: for example, geocachers could put QR codes on their caches so that clicking the web link automatically recorded their presence. Those you wouldn't even see unless you unearthed the cache.

But as I said before, trail signs in the mountains will be able to say far more with words than with url's.

I do respect the idea that a URL could go directly to a Topo website to the precise point at which the sign is located; it's a thoughtful idea. However, I think it would be really bad to introduce such technology reliance in the mountains. If you're at a junction with a sign, then you know precisely where you are on a paper map. In fact, just having a written northing and easting on the sign would be far more useful to users of any type of navigational tool, paper or electronic, than a QR code. Because, really, did you want to have to drag out a smartphone to know what my avatar means?
 
Kevin Rooney said:
I like your avatar, MJ ;)
Click to expand...

Me too, MJ. Well played.

I think the presumption that newbies are the ones who get into trouble is preposterous. I've hiked with many people who would consider themselves seasoned veterans but I would certainly never want to have to rely on some of them in a truly difficult backcountry situation. Conversely, I know many newbies who I think have a good head on their shoulders and are generally capable of tackling problems (don't forget, we aren't talking about rocket science) that I would be happy to rely on in the backcountry.

I stand firm behind the idea that having the right gear and a list or two ticked off does not make someone a wise, prudent, outdoors-person.

I think the QR codes should be on maps themselves at certain points of interest. That way, if you think this application of the technology on trail signs is just plain lame (as I happen to think), you don't have to snicker at them each time you pass one. Then you can buy the map that has the features you like best (one with or one without QR codes). If you need to rely on QR codes to find your way around the woods, you probably shouldn't be wandering around the woods, let alone your neighborhood. If you want the QR codes to learn some interesting factoids about the place you are recreating (this, I think, is a great application of the technology) then having it on the map would serve the same purpose.
 
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The first luddite that comes along will deface the qr code and it will become useless. Tampering with trail signs is nothing new, but if the signs are in English at least you can detect it.
 
Remix said:
The first luddite that comes along will deface the qr code and it will become useless. Tampering with trail signs is nothing new, but if the signs are in English at least you can detect it.
Click to expand...

Would this be a problem with the new (non-wood) signs they're putting up in the Whites?

Apart from these QR codes encouraging over-reliance on technology, I guess another problem I have with them is that they are almost like graffiti...unless you have a phone to read them, they just seem like an eye-sore.

I suppose it wouldn't be as invasive if they were only placed at popular trailheads, but they're not the kinds of things I want to run into deep in the wilderness.
 
What are they good for?

Putting on my electrical engineer hat:

What can a QR code do?
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qr_code a QR code can store a maximum of ~3K bytes. (This is for version 40 which doesn't look very practical for outdoor use. One of the versions with bigger features (and less information), eg v4 or lower, is probably more weather resistant and reliable. From the same ref, it looks like such a code can store ~50 bytes. (A byte can generally store a little more than one character... 3K bytes is about 1 page of text.)

So what can one do with 50 bytes? Store a URL or about the same amount of text that one can put on a fairly small sign.
* URL: URLs are only useful if you have a web-enabled phone with a camera, there is adequate light on the QR code, the phone is within range of a cell tower, and your batteries are good. (ie, not very reliable away from urban areas and many don't even carry such a phone...)
* Text:
- A physical sign is still needed, so the QR code is redundant. IMO, the QR code gives no additional value in this circumstance.
- A sign can be expanded as needed to present more information. (A trailhead kiosk presents far more than 3K bytes of info.)

So fine, use them to provide info in addition to a sign in urban parks, museums, zoos, etc, but I see very little added value in the backwoods. Signs work, last a long time, are reliable, etc. Sometimes low-tech is a better choice than high-tech...

Doug
 
Would I like to see these codes on a trail sign? no, I would not, would it bother me that much if I did? no. As far as aiding people in avoiding trouble, it might, but there will always be people in trouble regardless of the latest technology, people thought that with GPS units nobody could get lost. My mindset is this, when Im in the woods I ignore everything, loud groups, dogs and thier obnoxious owners, cell phone calls on the summit ( Hey can you hear me? IM on a mountain top!!!!!!!) Ive learned to do my own thing and ignore people, otherwise you could be bothered all day everyday. My best hiking days are out in CO, where all the above is much less commen.
 
DougPaul said:
So what can one do with 50 bytes? Store a URL or about the same amount of text that one can put on a fairly small sign.
Click to expand...
But that URL can point to an enormous amount of information...

On the practical side, I think they will just become targets for vandalism.
 
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