So what are your early winter "bonus" hikes ?

[una_dogger]

Contentedly stating that I have no "winter needs" but still adding that I happily got to OH in December before conditions set in (and even happier that it was a friend's 2nd round finish that had OH hanging for 14 years!). No shame in it!

 

[Tahoma]

I also agree with this!
There can be no shame around taking advantage of good weather. You wouldnt discredit a quarterback's TD records just because he scores a few of them against bum teams.

But to get a little more in depth DayTrip, I agree, bragging has no place in the mountains and I can certainly see how this got under your skin. I run competitions as part of my work and have been a competing athlete for years. I CANT STAND when I get the anglers! They want to push every rule to seek an edge. I just want to scream, "Just do it the way youre supposed to!"
All I can say is that I dont agree with how those people see the feat or the challenge. I know how I like to do it. This is the first time in my life ive ever worked on a mountain "list." Normally I just like climbing interesting stuff.

However on the flip side of the coin, as a rock and ice climber I dont care about peoples rules or flashing anything. If I need to put in a piece of aid or pull on gear I do it. Im out there to climb a mountain in an interesting way hands down. BUT, I would never get caught bragging about "killing pitches" etc. It is definitely unbecoming and I can see why it bothered you.

 

[mirabela]

I think the biggest value of the "winter list" for us is just giving us an extra shove out the door in a time of year when it's all too easy to stay in, and an extra incentive to go a variety of places instead of repeating the same favorite hikes over and over ... so, I'm not personally too troubled about whether an abnormally easy season somehow invalidates the spirit of the thing, though I understand why those who do might feel that way.

The bottom line for us is that we get out there. We hiked on Monday, before the snow, and although it did involve walking a closed road, it felt in all other respects like an early November hike.

 

[Raven]

I guess my comments are partly a reaction to all the boasting I see on various Facebook forums from people actively promoting various achievements that I find to be misleading or misrepresentative of whiat they really did. It's one thing to say you "were fortunate to catch Mt Washington with it's guard down this December and check it off the list" versus saying you "just ripped up Washington in the dead of Winter and you're kicking ass on the Winter 48" when you know you were out there walking on bare ground on a calm, 30 deg day and it was nothing like what Washington normally would be in late December. To me there is a distinction between the two.

That's funny. Admittedly, if "bagging peaks" I take advantage of easy days when they appear, especially on the 5,000 footers, but that's because I have periodically had absurdly challenging days on mountains like Nancy which took me three tries and a lot of pulling out of spruce traps for an all season, non winter peak.

If someone does the W48, they will meet plenty of challenges along the way to make up for the easy ones. This guy that "ripped up Washington in the dead of winter" may have his ass handed to him on Hale.

When I completed the W48, Washington was a relatively easy day. But on another day, I could barely make forward progress on Monroe from the wind. I had real temps in the -20's to go with competing leg cramps on Flume and Liberty but Lafayette and Lincoln was a calm bluebird day. I will hike them when the window of opportunity is good, but probably best to be thankful for the chance as opposed to bragging about the conquest.

 

[Snowflea]

In the words of the first to accomplish, in 1960, the game of climbing the NH 4000 footers in winter:

"As the initiators we set the rules, which concerned the definition of 'winter.' 'Snow on the ground' and other namby-pamby criteria definitely did not count. 'Winter' was to be measured exclusively by the calendar."

Give me the Hills, by Miriam Underhill, a fascinating read with one chapter devoted to the 4000 footers in winter. In it the author details some of their more memorable outings. The multiday expedition--in 50-60 year old gear and ALWAYS breaking trail--that was the Hancocks in winter (Kanc not plowed!) always humbles! Try and pick up a copy if you can.

 

[DayTrip]

That's funny. Admittedly, if "bagging peaks" I take advantage of easy days when they appear, especially on the 5,000 footers, but that's because I have periodically had absurdly challenging days on mountains like Nancy which took me three tries and a lot of pulling out of spruce traps for an all season, non winter peak.

If someone does the W48, they will meet plenty of challenges along the way to make up for the easy ones. This guy that "ripped up Washington in the dead of winter" may have his ass handed to him on Hale.

When I completed the W48, Washington was a relatively easy day. But on another day, I could barely make forward progress on Monroe from the wind. I had real temps in the -20's to go with competing leg cramps on Flume and Liberty but Lafayette and Lincoln was a calm bluebird day. I will hike them when the window of opportunity is good, but probably best to be thankful for the chance as opposed to bragging about the conquest.

This is true. It is strange the way sometimes an expected rough day turns out great and a seemingly easy day winds up pushing us in ways we didn't expect.

 

[DayTrip]

I think the biggest value of the "winter list" for us is just giving us an extra shove out the door in a time of year when it's all too easy to stay in, and an extra incentive to go a variety of places instead of repeating the same favorite hikes over and over ... so, I'm not personally too troubled about whether an abnormally easy season somehow invalidates the spirit of the thing, though I understand why those who do might feel that way.

The bottom line for us is that we get out there. We hiked on Monday, before the snow, and although it did involve walking a closed road, it felt in all other respects like an early November hike.

I too think the main value of the lists is "forcing" us into areas we wouldn't otherwise go or maybe weren't even aware of. I wasn't even aware of all these lists when I started seriously hiking almost 4 years ago and the last thought on my mind at the time was exploring new areas. On my fortieth birthday in 2010, after not hiking for a long time, I decided to climb Washington to see if I could still do it. It wasn't a particularly impressive outing but I went up my "go to" hike of Washington up Boott Spur and down Lion's Head. A few years passed and in 2012 I figured I'd climb the 10 highest peaks in NH because I always did Washington when I hiked. Then it was the 20 tallest. Then over that Winter I found the 48 4k list and figured what the hell. I'll work on the list. And as I plodded through the list it began to dawn on me how many amazing areas of the Whites I was not even aware of. It didn't take long for me to start a list of "places I want to go back to after the list".

I think the lists provide an initial framework or structure that allows someone (particularly like me with a limited knowledge of the many trails out there) to lay plans, have some sort of goal and begin exploring. For me the list became progressively less important as I went. It became much more about getting better gear, learning more skills, getting into these places during more of the year (i.e. all seasons), gaining a wider range of experiences to learn from so I could get out there and enjoy the mountains as much as possible. Now that I know the Whites so much better I can't say I really have an interest in lists. I know there are peaks and areas I have no desire to revisit, and wouldn't be doing so unless I was specifically checking peaks off a list. I have my own internal list now which is based much more on personal goals to gain more experience in a variety of conditions and become a more well rounded hiker. Many of my hikes now I skip the actual peaks (and crowds) and really couldn't care less that I skip that last 1/4 mile or so. That's not the point anymore. It's strange the way the list provided me with a blueprint that gave me tremendous appreciation for hiking in the Whites and now I regard them with such contempt. But the original intention was met: I love hiking now and go as often as I can.

 

[mirabela]

^^ Well put. <'Like'> button.

 

[sierra]

Daytrip, If you don't mind I'd like to give some advice, you can do with it what you will. The most important thing about hiking regardless of the time of year or list, is that your involved in what I think is one of the greatest endeavors one could find themselves doing. The art of climbing mountains is so rich with variables that it's a forever changing landscape, you can climb a peak one week, climb it another and find a completely different experience, yet both will be rewarding in their own way. I'm not a list guy, your dilemma is one reason why, your worried a peak is to easy for a winter ascent to count. Don't worry, some winter day in the future, mother nature will cash that chit in and you will suffer your share. Secondly, ignore everybody else, it doesn't matter what anyone else is doing. Hike in your own bubble immune to other's. People on this site would proboly agree, I'm not always normal, I'm not like everyone else. It just shows because I don't care to hide it. In 35 years of bagging 4k's, I'm not known, I see the photos of gridder's, read the same names year after year, but I go on in obscurity. I only want to hike, to be out there that's it. My life is dedicated to climbing my way, I've been crititized many times for my methods over the year's, it doesn't bother me. I climb to climb, my way. I see all kinds out there, I say nothing, just move on and do my thing. If it's a calendar winter day, you got it. The day you get hailed on doing Washington in August will make up for it.

 

[peakbagger]

Luckily, I abandoned the tyranny of the lists long ago. Some folks are list oriented and its their motivation and others aren't and I expect there no point in arguing it. I do admit on rare occasions the NH 100 highest starts to draw me back in but the memories of remaining solo bushwacks in Nash stream bring me back to reality. I enjoy going hiking with gridders and am happy for them when they celebrate finishing a list but it hasn't been my gig for years. If I happen to run into someone who is looking for company to finish a mutual list that great but I will do it for the company.

One of the more depressing things I have encountered over the years are folks who are strictly list oriented. I have run into several list candidates over the years that were hiking only for the lists stake, a couple of them commented that once they got the list done they were glad they wouldn't have to climb another mountain. I know of couple that stuck to the plan, the hiked just about every weekend rain/snow or sleet to get the list done and as far as I know that was the last time they went hiking.

 

[Stan]

It is liberating to complete lists and be free of them but I must confess, I keep lists and redlines for places I may never go again if only to help me pick out something different, a peak, terrain etc. next time I go ... nice thing is, there are few places that I wouldn't care if I never go back ...

Due to other pressing priorities this year's early winter hiking has been limited to redlining nearby sanctuaries, parks, conservation lands etc. There I go with those lists again but they do help me find new vistas ... or something.

 

[una_dogger]

It is liberating to complete lists and be free of them but I must confess, I keep lists and redlines for places I may never go again if only to help me pick out something different, a peak, terrain etc. next time I go ... nice thing is, there are few places that I wouldn't care if I never go back ...

Due to other pressing priorities this year's early winter hiking has been limited to redlining nearby sanctuaries, parks, conservation lands etc. There I go with those lists again but they do help me find new vistas ... or something.

I hear you! I really dislike taking a reductionist approach to "what will I hike"...I guess its x, y, or z because its the month of X and I need......last winter I had to curtail nearly all of my outdoor activities of any duration due to post-surgical rehab (including skiing, gasp!)...now I'm looking at making up for lost time and finding that I dread driving and planning.

Perhaps I should go back to hiking whatever, wherever, whenever...

 

[DayTrip]

Luckily, I abandoned the tyranny of the lists long ago. Some folks are list oriented and its their motivation and others aren't and I expect there no point in arguing it. I do admit on rare occasions the NH 100 highest starts to draw me back in but the memories of remaining solo bushwacks in Nash stream bring me back to reality. I enjoy going hiking with gridders and am happy for them when they celebrate finishing a list but it hasn't been my gig for years. If I happen to run into someone who is looking for company to finish a mutual list that great but I will do it for the company.

One of the more depressing things I have encountered over the years are folks who are strictly list oriented. I have run into several list candidates over the years that were hiking only for the lists stake, a couple of them commented that once they got the list done they were glad they wouldn't have to climb another mountain. I know of couple that stuck to the plan, the hiked just about every weekend rain/snow or sleet to get the list done and as far as I know that was the last time they went hiking.

That is truly unfortunate. The group I met on Flume was probably not that bad but they were all definitely list focused. It dominated everyone's conversations on the summit. It's good to set goals and achieve them, and the lists do help with that but as the famous quote says" "It's about the journey, not the destination."

 

[DayTrip]

Daytrip, If you don't mind I'd like to give some advice, you can do with it what you will. The most important thing about hiking regardless of the time of year or list, is that your involved in what I think is one of the greatest endeavors one could find themselves doing. The art of climbing mountains is so rich with variables that it's a forever changing landscape, you can climb a peak one week, climb it another and find a completely different experience, yet both will be rewarding in their own way. I'm not a list guy, your dilemma is one reason why, your worried a peak is to easy for a winter ascent to count. Don't worry, some winter day in the future, mother nature will cash that chit in and you will suffer your share. Secondly, ignore everybody else, it doesn't matter what anyone else is doing. Hike in your own bubble immune to other's. People on this site would proboly agree, I'm not always normal, I'm not like everyone else. It just shows because I don't care to hide it. In 35 years of bagging 4k's, I'm not known, I see the photos of gridder's, read the same names year after year, but I go on in obscurity. I only want to hike, to be out there that's it. My life is dedicated to climbing my way, I've been crititized many times for my methods over the year's, it doesn't bother me. I climb to climb, my way. I see all kinds out there, I say nothing, just move on and do my thing. If it's a calendar winter day, you got it. The day you get hailed on doing Washington in August will make up for it.

No problem. I think "worried" overstates my thoughts though. I just find it mildly annoying when people take the "greatness" out of a great endeavor as you describe it. There is so much satisfaction in the hike itself that I always question it when people pursue it for other reasons. That's all. When I'm driving back to CT late in what will wind up being a 22 or 23 hour day NONE of my thoughts revolve around check marks on a list and the smile on my face is not the result of a patch I'll be getting in the mail. Those are all by products of a much deeper enjoyment.

I often wish I could just drop my Facebook hiking group because it just seems to get progressively more and more ridiculous and misguided with each passing post. But there are a lot of great photos and I'll often find the inspiration to go check out on area based on these posts. And there are people on there I enjoy following and commenting with. But then there are the wild exaggerations, the list focus, the laziness of the questions, etc. They need to create a "bullshit" filter so I don't have to wade through so much nonsense to see the pictures and comments I really enjoy.

 

[TJsName]

I hear you! I really dislike taking a reductionist approach to "what will I hike"...I guess its x, y, or z because its the month of X and I need......last winter I had to curtail nearly all of my outdoor activities of any duration due to post-surgical rehab (including skiing, gasp!)...now I'm looking at making up for lost time and finding that I dread driving and planning.

Perhaps I should go back to hiking whatever, wherever, whenever...

Planning is hard! I find a list really helps as an idea starter, but I'm hardly beholden to it. It's fun exploring new places, but it's also fun just hiking with friends and enjoying the outdoors. I'll likely finish redlining eventually, but your point about driving weights in (about half of what I have left is north of Rt 2 or east of Rt 16)! I hope that rehab was/is successful.

 

[una_dogger]

Planning is hard! I find a list really helps as an idea starter, but I'm hardly beholden to it. It's fun exploring new places, but it's also fun just hiking with friends and enjoying the outdoors. I'll likely finish redlining eventually, but your point about driving weights in (about half of what I have left is north of Rt 2 or east of Rt 16)! I hope that rehab was/is successful.

I try to use mental tricks to motivate if I can, one dog has only the Carters for NH48, the other dog is at 34/48 for round 7, its usually easy to find a peak/peaks that can satisfy more than one "list"...still that three hour drive each way...I don't know how I've gotten this far!!!

At this point, my goal is set at a minimum of one hike per month.

 

[sierra]

My dog is taking a casual approach to the 4k's. Yes, he is working on them, but repeats get thrown in between because his Dad hates list. We compromise, I hike where I want, every now and then he gets to pick one for his list and we go there.

 

[SpencerVT]

Some more bonus hikes: Going to climb North Doublehead (Whites) tomorrow; looks like fun.

My wife and I hiked the NW Lyon Peak (ADKs) on Jan 1st. COLD. The NW Lyon summit was an easy bushwhack with mostly open forest.

Me on the herd trail going from the communications tower to the summit of Averill (ADKs) Tons of blowdown that you had to crawl under. This herd trail was harder than many bushwhacks. Overgrown, thick, narrow and tons of blowdown. It was well-marked however.

Near the summit of Averill (ADKs), thank God we didn't have to go through this! Over a foot of snow at the summit of Averill. It was extremely cold with lots of wind by the communications tower.

 

[hikerbrian]

Lots of excellent commentary here - thoughtful and insightful posts. VFTT does not see anywhere near the quantity of chatter that certain FB groups do, but the quality here is really on a different level. Keep on keepin' on, friends!

I feel your pain, Daytrip and others. Reminds me of a solo trip I did a couple of years ago: headed up to Nauman, dropped my overnight gear and then headed out towards Washington with the plan to just go as far as I felt like going. I think it was 3 winters ago, the last weekend of winter, when it hit something like 60 degrees at the observatory! Freakishly warm weather. I took a nap on Ike. Like, the top of Ike. In the 'winter.' As background, I've attempted a winter Presi-traverse backpack on 4 occassions now over the past 10-ish years, north to south, and the farthest I've made it is midway up Monroe before bailing. In each case, the weather has turned epic one or two or three days in, as it is wont to do. But on that weekend, I was hanging out on Monroe, just basking in the sun and warm weather, and a group comes by, can't stop talking about how they're about to complete a single day winter presi-traverse, WOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! SO HARDCORE!!!! Ohmygod, I was dying. Sierra, you're right on, couldn't agree more with what you wrote, but at that particular moment, I just wanted to scream, 'It doesn't count, this is not winter, YOU DON'T GET TO HAVE BRAGGING RIGHTS!!!!' I didn't. I sipped my hot gatorade, ate my grilled cheese, nibbled a chocolate bar and let them pass.

The reality, at least for me, is that those feelings were born of insecurity. Somewhere deep in my psyche, I was insecure about the fact that that group was about to complete an itinerary that I had bailed on on 4 seperate occassions. Well, single day vs. backpack (which I think is harder), but same idea. It's goofy, on so many levels, that I would feel insecure about my 'accomplishments' or lack thereof in the mountains. I don't go to the mountains to 'compete' and to 'accomplish', at least I didn't think I did, but there it was.

I've thought about it a lot, but truth be told I'm not completely certain what draws me to the mountains. I think it's a lot of factors. But this 'competition' thing is a motivator I've actively tried to erase from my psyche, and I've found myself enjoying my experiences even more. Eliminating just that little bit of nagging negativity and insecurity has made already amazing experiences just that much better; I don't bother wondering if someone somewhere is having an even more amazing experience. Before that weekend in the southern Presis, I'm not sure I could have pinpointed the source of that negativity, but having thought about it a bit (I mean, it should not be possible to feel anything other than bliss when sitting on Monroe with all the beauty of a winter landscape and none of the cold harshness), I'm convinced that, for me, bringing competition into my hiking is almost universally negative.

 

[carla]

I try to use mental tricks to motivate if I can, one dog has only the Carters for NH48, the other dog is at 34/48 for round 7, its usually easy to find a peak/peaks that can satisfy more than one "list"...still that three hour drive each way...I don't know how I've gotten this far!!!

At this point, my goal is set at a minimum of one hike per month.

Una, I hear you! I still love to hike, but it's the thought of the drives now that deters me. The first time I did the 48 was many years ago and I happily zipped up weekend after weekend, doing most in daytrips. Second round was spread out over a longer time, and admittedly, the notion that I could complete a list again was motivating in itself, and also some friends were doing their lists over the years too so that was motivating. I feel like a bit of a slacker these days, but that's just the way it goes I guess as we all get busier, more involved in careers and other obligations. I do miss it all though!