AMC -vs- the snowmobiles (Union Leader article)

[afka_bob]

In todays Union Leader, more on the AMC/snowmobile issue:

Snowmobile trail battle looms between AMC, NH
By PAULA TRACY
Union Leader Staff
11/29/04

CARROLL — Claiming its new Highland Center in Crawford Notch will be the center of a snowmobile "merry-go-round" with winter noise and lights surrounding its guests both day and night, the Appalachian Mountain Club went to court last week to put the brakes on a state snowmobile trail project.

But state officials, who maintain there is no adequate alternative to handle the volume of snowmobile traffic, are hoping the matter is settled before the snow flies.

Many who see the trail as crucial to winter recreation in the Mount Washington region said they will await the outcome of the Merrimack County Superior Court battle between the nation's oldest hiking club and the state's Departments of Transportation and Resources and Economic Development.

"We are going to let the two of them work it out," said Gail Hanson, executive director of the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association, which represents 118 snowmobile clubs across the state.

Hanson said the issue arose when the state faced the fact that one of its major snowmobile thoroughfares into the White Mountains — from Fabyan's Station in Carroll along the Cog Base Road to Jefferson Notch Road — would no longer be available this winter.

The Cog Railway, for the first winter ever, is open for ski tours. The Base Road will be plowed, rather than used by snowmobiles, so that vehicles can access the cog railway base.

"Because of that loss, access to all those trails up there, the state was looking for alternative routes," Hanson said.


This summer, the state began construction of a trail parallel to the Base Road which would connect with the trails at Jefferson Notch Road, but the state Department of Resources and Economic Development asserted that the alternative trail was inadequate to handle the anticipated snowmobile traffic.
State estimates are that up to 2,000 snowmobiles a week have used the Cog Base Road.

Construction began earlier this fall on a new trail on land controlled by the state. It begins at Fabyan's, but follows the Maine Central Railroad tracks along the south side of Route 302 up to Crawford Notch, then crosses the highway near the Highland Center at Saco Lake and follows along to a crossing with Gibbs Brook before turning on to Mount Clinton Road and eventually connecting with Jefferson Notch Road.


The multi-million dollar Highland Center, completed in 2003, is across from Saco Lake and Gibbs Brook.


"The snowmobile trail will encircle the AMC's new Highland Center lodging and conference facilities, which will become a virtual center of a snowmobile 'merry-go-round' with accompanying day and night noise and lights, causing damage to its reputation, programs and property," the AMC wrote in its petition for a temporary restraining order against the state last week.

The trail was designed and constructed "with no notice or opportunity to be heard to AMC, a property owner directly affected. This is truly shocking since AMC is a statuatorily appointed member of the Trails Advisory Committee . . . to consult on trail decisions," the club wrote.


Judge Edward Fitzgerald has scheduled a hearing tomorrow in Merrimack County Superior Court in Concord.


Meanwhile, the state has agreed to a temporary halt in its construction.
Hanson said the matter is contentious because it is an important link in the state's 6,800 miles of snowmobile trail.


"I have no clue why everyone is so upset with each other. Normally, we have always gotten along with AMC. I think they just wanted some advance notice on this and they didn't get it," she said.

She noted Executive Councilor Raymond Burton of Bath is working with all the parties to come to a resolution.

Burton could not be reached yesterday for comment.

Walter S. Graff, deputy director of the AMC, noted that the lack of notice not only affected the club, but has an impact on historic and nationally designated trails, including the Crawford Depot, the Crawford Path and Route 302, a federally designated scenic highway.


"The defendants failed to comply with their legal obligations under RSA 227-C:9 to notify the Division of Historical Resources of its proposed project so that the Division of Historic Resources could determine the impact of the project . . .," the court documents read.

 

[spider solo]

I wish the AMC well on this one...I'd hate to see the machines blasting through there all the time.

 

[SherpaKroto]

Another impact possibly missed is that the proposed re-route onto Mt Clinton Rd will make access to Edmands Path much tougher than it has been for the past 4-5 years. Eisenhower in winter just got tougher...

 

[Panama Jack]

Appalachian Money Collectors

Well at least I feel like my AMC dollars are being used for something someone there feels is worth fighting for.

However, The Highland Center was a bad move, have you ever seen the parking lot there??? Its full of BMW SUV's and the like. I wish they had invested those dollars back into back country improvements, rather than the highland center.

Pinkham is perfectly adequate for seminars, conferences and the like, I dont mean to be bitter about it but..........Bitter, table for one, bitter........

 

[Tramper Al]

?

The Highland Center was a bad move, have you ever seen the parking lot there??? Its full of BMW SUV's and the like.

Gee, I missed when we decided to make this into yet another 'bash the AMC' thread. Weren't we discussing snowmobiles?

 

[Grumpy]

. . . The Highland Center was a bad move, have you ever seen the parking lot there??? Its full of BMW SUV's and the like.. . .

Forgive my being obtuse, but what's wrong with BMW SUVs?

G.

 

[DeadFred]

IMHO, snowmobiles are today what automobiles were in the 30's and 40's. They are really neat and fun and when enough people can afford one EVERYONE who wants one can own one. At the time they didn't pose signifcant problems. Then everyone had to have one and before you knew it they presented massive pollution problems and incured huge costs to consumers and governments (think highway construction and taxes), growing into a massive self sustaining industry that fed other industries like oil, steel and labor.

If something isn't done today to BALANCE (not eliminate, ok snowmobilers?) the use of snowmobiles in the backcountry, they will take over our natural world just as autos have become the "American Way" and taken over our world.

When will people start to understand and appreciate how their choices impact the world around them today and tomorrow? We MUST create enough opportunities to allow snowmobilers their chance to play while protecting our natural areas and we MUST force them to deal with the pollution problems they generate.

We in NY are dealing with this issue right now in a big way. Our problem (IMHO) is that they want more and more and more and aren't satisfied with what they have already been granted in terms of rights and routes. With more and more snowmobiles out there, and more and more hikers out there, it's bound to come to a head.

 

[arghman]

I've got mixed feelings on this one.

Snowmobilers tend to be pretty responsible on the whole, usually a lot better than ATV's. There's a local club in town, they've done a pretty good job w/ trail maintenance & stuff.

That route they show is a bit much, though; I can't believe the state would push to build a snowmobile route around three sides of someone's property w/o their cooperation.

(On the other hand, maybe AMC would get lots of business from them! The B&Bs/restaurants up in the North Country would kill for prime snowmobile access.)

 

[Waumbek]

(On the other hand, maybe AMC would get lots of business from them! The B&Bs/restaurants up in the North Country would kill for prime snowmobile access.)

Well, yes and no. Time was when the Grand Hotels, Mount Washington and the Balsams, were really struggling and willing to try to attract snowmobilers. I think that time has passed now, at least for the MWH, which seems to be targeting a different audience these days. I'm surprised that the hotel hasn't weighed in against this. As for snowmobilers being "more responsible," this issue usually sets off debates like hunting does. There has been a lot of trouble with drinking and accidents, in response to which the NH state police have set up a well-publicized trailside sobriety checkpoint program, especially on holidays like Martin Luther King and President's day. No not everybody on snow machines is drunk, but the stats have been troubling over the last few years. The best solution I have heard is to put speed governors and mufflers on these machines, and I believe that there are ways to cut down the pollution but I'm not conversant with them. I've just seen people mention them when this perennial topic comes up on boards like this.

 

[bigmoose]

Simple solution! Snowthrowers use the Base Road, as in the past, state plows and sands Mt. Clinton Rd. for cars headed to the Cog.... AMC is happy, sleds are safer, as they don't have to cross 302 or Base Road at Mt. Clinton intersection....Hikers can access Edmands Path trailhead (plowed out) for Eisenhower....Why not??

 

[Waumbek]

Sounds too simple and sane, bigmoose. Something's gotta be wrong with it. Feasability? Liability? Turf jurisdiction conflicts and/or questionable use of NH state funds: state of NH plows USFS Clinton Road for private company Cog's profit so that snowmobilers don't ruin ambiance of AMC's new hotel? I don't think that will fly in Concord. Maybe it would work if the Cog plows the Mt. Clinton Rd so that its patrons can get to the ski train. Evidently, the Cog has plowed the Mt. Clinton Road in the past so that its crew could get up to the base station in winter:

"In the past the Mount Clinton Road was plowed for use by Cog Railway employees, but it is expected that it will not be plowed this winter [2004-05], since the Base Road will be plowed." (mountwashington.org)

 

[Bolivia]

I'm not a snowmobiler (I prefer snowshoeing) and I'm not familiar with how the snowmobile organizations in places like NH/NY/ME run their operations.

But from what I've seen in VT, things seem to be run fairly fairly (pun intended). Snowmobiling is promoted in a controlled manner. The state organization itself seems to be one of the strictest enforcers of not abusing the situation and the biggest mover in maintaining the trails. I've seen the State Police are out in force around Kelly Stand. I've never seen snowmobile tracks on snowshoeing/skiing-only trails.

It seems that other states would do well to emulate VT. (At first glance it seems to be a bit of a non sequitur though to see a "Stop" sign on a trail in the middle of the woods while on a summer hike. That feeling is immediately replaced by a big "thumbs up" when one looks at the big picture.)

 

[afka_bob]

obtuseness forgiven

Forgive my being obtuse, but what's wrong with BMW SUVs?

G.

I am told that recognizing your obtuseness as you did above is the first step to a cure -- and is to be commended.

What's wrong with BMW SUVs? Nuthin. If you can't afford an M-Wagen and wouldn't be caught dead in a Cherokee or something Japanese or Korean, but want something less tempramental than a Land Rover, this is just the ticket.

I support your and anyone's right to own and/or drive anything you can afford, heck, anything, whether you can afford it or not. I support your right to vote for Lyndon LaRouche. I support your right to eat nothing but Hostess Twinkies. I support your right to paint your house orange with purple stripes. I support your right to not mow your lawn. I support your right to watch reality TV 24 hours a day. I support your right to wear spandex without a weight-to-height-based permitting process. I support your right to chew with your mouth open.

I don't recommend any of those things, but I support your right to do them.

And forgive my own obtuseness, please (I, too, am only at step one, but striving!), and perhaps even enlighten me: do you have to be really fat to own one, or can anyone get one -- well, as long as they have a cellphone surgically attached to their ear and drive really fast in the right lane?

When you look around, we're really all a lot alike: Some love the feel of the wind in their hair as they ride their Harley on the open road, others love to rev their Hog under my bedroom window at one AM. Some love the hour's escape of a movie, others love talking loudly on their cellphone while seated right behind me at that same movie. Some love a quiet swim in an isolated pond, others love to scream across that pond on a jetski, dodging still others in the flotilla of power boats from "Weekend at Dunkirk." Some love a sporty coupe with great road feel, others love the off-road capability of a monster truck to plough over my front lawn. Some love the environment, others love driving around in their gas-guzzling SUVs. The important point here is: everybody finds something to love.

Perhaps you will forgive me if I do find a small measure of amusement and cosmic balance at/of SUVs and their owners (when they aren't backing into me in parking lots because the driver is really too incompetant to pilot a Yugo but just happened to pick an SUV -- complete coincidence, no doubt), when I see them filling up at $1.90+ a gallon. But for REAL "what-says-more-money-than-sense," forget the BMW: for THAT you can't beat an Escalade or a Navigator.

 

[Hampshire]

Hypocritical

Seems hypocritical to me that the AMC would build a facilitly that draws addtional people to an area, that they are now trying to protect. I personally think the the leaders of the AMC should spend more time on mountain tops passing out 4000 footer patches.

 

[arghman]

Well, yes and no. Time was when the Grand Hotels, Mount Washington and the Balsams, were really struggling and willing to try to attract snowmobilers. I think that time has passed now, at least for the MWH, which seems to be targeting a different audience these days.

I was talking more about the North Country, e.g. Errol/Millsfield/Colebrook/etc. where they do get quite a lot of their business from snowmobilers... The Mt Washington Hotel can fend for itself, but there are lots of smaller motels/hotels in Twin Mtn which I'm sure could use the business.

 

[Waumbek]

Yes, Twin Mtn could use the business. And it's well know that there's no love lost between Twin motels and restaurants and the new AMC "educational center" in Crawford Notch that serves alcohol. Sounds to me like there's a lot of behind-the-scenes politics in this overlap and clash between AMC, state of NH, USFS, local hospitality business, Cog, etc. Sooner or later we'll hear it all.

 

[Stan]

It would be nice to keep class envy, strereotyping and snobbery over whose recreational aversions are superior out the discussion of a serious challenge as to how to deal with safety, environmental and potential nuisance issues surrounding relocation of a snowmobile trail.

I say "potential nuisance" because the Balsams has a snowmobile trail that traverses its backyard and meanders through it's web of xc ski and snowshoe trails ... all with minimal disturbance that I have observed. Of course, the traffic may be considerably lighter up there than at Crawford Notch.

The safety and environmental concerns are valid however but consider that environmental impact, aside from the additional emissions from a longer more circuitous route, is minimal due to the fact that the new route is all along existing roads and rail beds.

The safety factor, in my mind, is quite significant with two crossings of rt. 302 required.

bigmoose has such a sensible solution. Unfortunately, as Waumbek points out, the bureaucratic turf battles from such a mix of private, state and federal interests would humble Alexander's armies. I think that is where our ire ought to be directed, at the so-called leaders who announce these things unilaterally and who defy any reasonable solution through their bureaucratic ineptitude and inertia.

 

[Gris]

Let the snowmobilers head on up to Presque Isle/Caribou. Lots a space for em up there!

 

[jjmcgo]

How ironic. The Highland Center becomes the apres-tour drinking spot for the snowmobile crowd. And, they said it wouldn't change the character of Crawford Notch.
Schadenfreude.

 

[Mike P.]

I always thought the skiers, hikers & sledder got along okay on Greylock & I've never had an issue with sledders, I do like to keep tabs on who does more fatal or paralyzing accidents each year, downhills, hikers or sledders, in recent years, each have finished the year first.

The suit I think is nothing more than a last minute tool to discuss alternative routes. Not sure the State wants to plow Mt. Clinton Road as it's probably easier to put a wide dump truck off the road there than it would be on the fairly straight Base Road. The base Road is a State Road, I don't believe Mt. Clinton is a State road.

Plowing Base Road makes Monroe access easier & provides another two (Ammo & Jewell) Washington routes, neither I think should have much avalanche danger, just lots of exposure. Doing Ike & Pierce via C-Path is still around 9 miles RT, that is not a tough day hike.