Avalanche danger in ADKs?

[Peakbagr]

A couple of family members told me that they heard on NPR that there was an avalanche danger posted for the Adirondacks.
With the weekend approaching, does anyone have more information on this?

 

[rhihn]

Hi Alan,

Here's the DEC warning:

http://www.adirondackbasecamp.com/2007/02/warns-avalanche-danger/

 

[BlackSpruce]

Avalanche warning: yes, it's in all the local newspapers. Since we couldn't find any volonteers to test the Macomb slide for us tomorrow we are bringing two shovels just in case! By noon today (Friday) none of the parking areas along route 73 into Keene Valley from Malfunction Junction had been cleared and the snow banks are hugging the through traffic lanes. The St. Huberts parking (Ausable Club side only) was open and a tractor was working on the Roostercomb trailhead.

At least parking will not be a problem at Clear Pond...

All the roads are cleared and in good conditions, even our driveway has been plowed!

 

[beverly]

Generic

DEC puts out this warning every winter. I think they must do it after big snow storms, as the information isn't specific to particular areas - i.e. it covers the entire Adirondacks.

 

[Whiteman]

There is a warning from the National Weather Service too

I posted this yesterday, but here it is again. I plan to personally investigate the back country this weekend; I'll be on the look out.

cheers.


From the National Weather Service:

937 AM EST THU FEB 15 2007

...RISK FOR AVALANCHES IN THE NORTH COUNTRY...

YESTERDAYS RECORD SNOWFALL HAS CREATED THE POTENTIAL FOR
AVALANCHES IN THE BACK COUNTRY OF THE GREEN MOUNTAINS IN VERMONT
AND THE ADIRONDACKS IN NORTHERN NEW YORK...ACCORDING TO STOWE
MOUNTAIN RESCUE OFFICIALS. OUTDOOR ENTHUSIASTS HEADING INTO THE
BACK COUNTRY THROUGH THE WEEKEND NEED TO BE AWARE OF THE AVALANCHE DANGER...AND RISKS INVOLVED. STEEP...OPEN SLOPES WILL HAVE THE HIGHEST AVALANCHE RISK.

THE CONDITIONS CREATING THE AVALANCHE POTENTIAL WILL CONTINUE INTO EARLY NEXT WEEK.

IF YOU GO INTO THE ADIRONDACKS OR GREEN MOUNTAINS TO SNOWSHOE...
SKI...OR ICE CLIMB...BE AWARE OF THE AVALANCHE DANGER...AND TAKE
APPROPRIATE PRECAUTIONS.

 

[BlackSpruce]

The Macomb slide was as steep as always but certainly not dangerous yesterday. The lower section is under deep snow and the upper is almost bare specially in the middle, wearing snowshoes (sporting agressive teeths) we all reached the top of the beast in less than an hour.

Upon descending the snow was so well packed by Friday's very strong winds that it made the buttsliding a very slow affair down the bottom section!

 

[John Graham]

Even in the Catskills, the snow seems very avalanche prone. We were at Bearpen on Sunday, at the top of the old ski slopes, and the snow made a series of very ominous crumps as we traversed them. There is a over a foot of heavy snow over a band of crust made by sleet. We didn't see any snow release, but we didn't venture out onto the steep parts of the slopes. I would think that bare ground on a slide after a heavy snow would indicate that the snow did release, and I would consider myself lucky that it did not come down on me and I certainly would not pronounce it safe.

 

[BlackSpruce]

No, no snow had gone down the slide, they were drifts higher up and some snow in places when I say bare I don't mean totally bare, we were 12 climbing the Macomb slide, all experienced winters climbers with half of us having climbed the slide several times in winter, we were extremely careful just in case but none of us ever felt and/or assessed that it was dangerous in any ways. The fact that we made it up and down safely had nothing to do with luck, of all people I am extremely careful and not brave in the least!

John, the path is now broken go have a look and you will be surprised, it's probably safer than it was a few weeks ago when only a few flully inches covered the ice.

Christine

 

[iceNsnow]

no avalanche chance

As much as I had hoped to see somewhat of a threat, there was none. Being there you would clearly note that the lack of snow in some areas of the slide was due to wind. The side protected by the trees from the crosswind had more snow.
But....... like some say - nobody moves, nobody gets hurt.....

 

[John Graham]

I've only climbed the Macomb slide a couple of times in winter, once in heavy deep new snow. This was before the deadly avalanche on Wright, and none of us carried shovels, avalanche probes or transponders, and we got a little nervous and moved into the trees. The accident on Wright served to remind myself and many others of the fact that, while avalanches may be far rarer in the east, they do occur. The weekend of that acccident, I was with a party attemting to climb and ski/snow board down the slide on Santanoni via Moose Pond. I was somewhat relieved that the deep snow stopped us from reaching the slide, even before I heard about the deaths that weekend. I don't purport to be an Avalanche expert, but I know that climbing slides during an avalanche alert, even with shovels, probes and avalanche awareness training is not something I would recommend.

 

[erd]

The combination of a sleet layer (this fell widely across the region) topped with windslab from the two big windstorms that followed the snow, is as perfect a recipe for an avalanche as I can imagine. Having said that, there are few areas in the Catskills (John mentions one of them--another might be the Friday Slide) where the slopes are sufficiently open for real trouble. The Dacks are a whole other story, although I don't know if they got the sleet.

Ted.

 

[BlackSpruce]

No, we didn't get the sleet and if you, John G. and Erd, two experienced and knowledgeable men have decided that I am wrong and a total idiot it's just fine don't worry be happy I am. What is it on the web that all women get the same paternalistic kind of treatment from guys like you, I don't know but I realize it's not about to change and it makes me feels sorry for the younger generation out there that's all. Thanksfully you are the royal exception!

Christine

 

[erd]

Dear Christine,

I was responding to John's post with a general observation, because I am interested in the phenomenon of avalanches (or their comparative absence) in the Catskills, where I live. I've known John for some years and am always interested in what he has to say on safety matters. This was my first visit to VFTT in nearly a year.

I had picked his posting up via the "New Postings" link, as I was curious as to what's going on on the board at present. In consequence, I hadn't even read your messages until your post. Believe me, I'm not being paternalistic. I'm a firm believer in personal responsibility in the area of outdoor activities (as elsewhere), and an equally firm believer in equal opportunity, having two young daughters. I think you may be mistaking me for someone else.

Edward

 

[BlackSpruce]

Edward, thanks for the clarification, a few weeks ago a group of climbers buttslide near the Orebed trail on a short but extremely icy slide covered by very little snow and which offered at the time a bare rocky ledge at its bottom, they got badly hurt. Nobody then evaluated that the many Adirondacks slides were dangerous. Then a couple of weeks ago another climber did get hurt buttsliding down the Macomb slide which at the time had lots of ice but little snow. So, when I fully agree that avalanche risk is a serious matter it's an extremely rare occurrence and this past Saturday the Macomb slide was safe, still we were extremely careful just in case. In any case it's a relatively short climb, of which upper section is worked by strong wind and only the lower part had a significant amount of show. The slide proper is a roughly .15-mile trek and climbs about 375', if you count the narrow rock/ice chute above which leads to a viewpoint at over 4000' hugging and circling a huge boulder/ledge it's an extra 175' of climbing. Certainly nothing that can compare to the Colden and Wrights slide for example, it doesn't mean that an avalanche will not happen if the conditions are right but it was very dangerous this past weekend we should stay indoors all winter long!

 

[Peakbagr]

The internet is a powerful thing, but allows folks to write and read without seeing body language, inflection, or intent.
On one hand, I believe Christine is sensitive to the patronage some women athletes and hikers receive. In this case, however, I know Ted and that would never be his intent.
Both Christine and Ted are super experienced in their own right.
Glad this was worked out amicably.

 

[John Graham]

As much as I had hoped to see somewhat of a threat, there was none. Being there you would clearly note that the lack of snow in some areas of the slide was due to wind. The side protected by the trees from the crosswind had more snow.
But....... like some say - nobody moves, nobody gets hurt.....

This is the quote that most disturbed me, it implies that at least one person in the party hoped to see avalanche conditions. When my party climbed half way up the slide in dangerous conditions some years ago, we were in the jeopardy as soon as we moved out into the fall line, but we were so confident in our skills that we didn't react until the snow started shifting around us. The way to recon if a slope is safe is not to go up it and see what happens. We were fortunate, in our hubris, that we were able to move off the slope before it came down on us. I have done many dangerous, and sometimes foolish things, and I admit to be older and a lot less bolder, but I do at least recognize that there were times when I crossed over that line. I can't say if that was the case for your party that day, but I don't think the avalanche danger can be dismissed.

 

[BlackSpruce]

John,

You should read again you previous postings on this thread and maybe you will then pick-up in a more accurate way what iceNsnow was trying to convey as you obviously totally missed her point!

We "slow,wrinkled and grey" girls are trying to have fun in the woods and on the web, we pretend to have a great sense of humor and of course don't need to be taken that seriously all of the time... still we know where we are going and how to get there!

 

[Neil]

A couple of family members told me that they heard on NPR that there was an avalanche danger posted for the Adirondacks.
With the weekend approaching, does anyone have more information on this?

This interesting post dates from one hour before the timestamp on this post. The writer is an avid Adirondack backcountry boarder and his posting history demonstrates that he is trained and knowledgeable and that safety is a major concern of his.

I was in the woods the whole weekend.

AVI risk was way high.

Dug a bunch of different pits in varying locales. Each pit gave different results but showed serious instabilities.

That ice layer is still there and is present at different depths. Unconsolidated sugar snow underneath.

Major wind loading in certain locations too which created serious wind crust which could become a problem if it gets buried.

Shooting cracks and major"whomphing" was observed on saturday. Better on sunday and monday.

All in all, things are bonding and getting better, but give it some time keep an eye out as there was some BIG Spatial Variablity everywhere.

 

[BlackSpruce]

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[lx93]

BlackSpruce,

We've all made mistakes before- I'm certainly at the top of the list. From what I can tell, noone made any reference to gender, only info on how to recognize the potential for & avoid avies.

All that other posters have done is give advice which just might save someone's life- is that really a bad thing?