Cog Rolls out big development plans near the summit.

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Started to read the Sayen piece but after a few paragraphs the radical agenda becomes apparent so stopped reading. Personally I find it hard to give credibility to position pieces that are laden with hyperbole and emotionally charged language. But everyone is entitled to their opinion of course. I'd rather read a calmer, more pragmatic discourse.

I did the same thing. It almost makes me want to support the Cog Railway proposal. I personally don't want any more development above treeline up there. The damage from the current cog operations are going to be there for hundreds of years. As I said the last time the cog wanted to build a hotel up there, there's a very good reason there is no hotel up there currently. There was no market for it and the previous hotel burned down.
 
FYI, the Coos County Planning Board has a Conceptual Consultation of the proposed Cog summit project on the agenda for Wednesday night (tomorrow) at 6 PM in Lancaster. This allows the Cog to present a general view of the project to the board and get feedback. It is the potential kick off to the permitting process but given that is not a formal permit hearing it is going to be presented in it best possible manner. There is no permit application to review and if similar to the Cog Hotel consultation a few years ago, there is no public comment period. There is no voting but in general it allows the potential applicant to get an idea on how receptive the board is the concept without direct public input. The public is welcome to attend and watch. The local press usually attends but I have found in the past that the interactions between the participants rarely are reflected in reporting and are quite revealing.

https://www.cooscountynh.us/sites/g/files/vyhlif4291/f/agendas/revised_agenda_04-20-2022.pdf

No doubt other interested parties may be able to make it, but the short notice usually limits folks ability to make it up.
 
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I went to Cog presentation last evening. It was sparsely attended. The Cog’s lawyer led the effort with Wayne Presby. A rep from the Department of Natural and Cultural Resource was there. DNCR is the state division that includes state parks and Fish and Game. It was not a well-organized presentation mostly back and forth with the planning board and public comments were allowed. The planning board were given a handout but it apparently was mostly full of pictures. It is not available on the planning department website. The Cog folks are very enthusiastic about their project concept and they think they have it all figured out. They represent that they have talked to a lot of stakeholders and I believe they have but meeting with and getting agreement on very broad and changing project is two very different things. There are no plans of the proposed project just the one photo simulation of what it may look like from the summit.

Some details I jotted down. The section of the cog proposed for the project is 14% grade. The right of way is 99 feet wide. The project will cover the entire area not occupied by the current track and the new additional track with grated decking. An additional 100 feet of right of way will be occupied with a rail switch where the two tracks come together. The deck will be supported on a steel understructure supported on concrete supports in the ground. The number of cars is more than shown on the photo simulation. The number is now approximately 20. One row will be the accommodation cars while the other row will be cars that support day users (food gifts and bathrooms). Due to the grade, the platform will be “stepped” with 6’ steps with enough space under one end to conceal support equipment. There is a bit of disconnect that it’s represented that the deck will hug the ground yet the steps will inherently stick up from the surroundings. The cog will drill a new well for their use as they have water rights to drill. The new rail cars may be camouflaged to blend in with the surroundings with solar panels on the roofs. The cog will build an electric shuttle train to run from the new facility to the summit it will have regenerative braking.

The project details are not firm, things are shifting based on meetings with various parties. The train guests previously would either go up an existing trail to the summit building or take the shuttle. The current plan is to run a path along the existing rail to the summit and direct people on it with handrails made out of recycled railroad track. There will be lots of handrails in general to try to keep people off the alpine zone.

Sewerage will be treated onsite with the solids trucked off the summit while liquids will be piped in a new above ground line to the base station to be disposed on in leach field. Wayne mentioned possibly putting some unused Pelton Wheel type generators on the pipeline to recover energy. Based on some quick calculations I think there are lot of details to be worked out on that concept as I have roughed out over a 1000 psi of head in the line at the base.
The Cog is negotiating to swap a piece of Cog owned land in the summit circle with the state land where the fuel tanks sit. The issue of the Cog’s rights was mentioned on occasion. The Cog claims to have many rights to do things on and off the summit including building a building on their land on the summit. They are willing to trade away those rights if the project is approved. They also mentioned that none of the hiking trails that cross the cog right of way have a legal right to do so including the AT. That is surprising to me. They quickly indicated that they do not intend to enforce this but implied is they could.

One thing interesting is the Cog is representing that the new facility will be a destination for many of the guests versus a stop on the way to the summit. Therefore, their contention is this facility will off load many people from the actual summit building. That would be an interesting contention to prove on sunny day as I do not think “I was almost at the top of Mt Washington” Ts shirts and bumper stickers would sell well". The new facility would be open to the public and would include various displays and educational aspects on the mountain. The DNCR rep is very enthusiastic about the project as it supports the states goals of getting more people up into the region and on the summit. She mentioned that the new summit master plan may have a discussion on summit capacity but it’s clear that that will be independent of supporting the cogs effort. She also contends that the new facility will reduce crowding at the summit. The cog explained that the current model is to bring triple cars (I think 280 people) a drop them off all at one time at the summit which puts a big load on the summit building facilities, the propose model is they will drop those people off at new facility so the summit building does not see the surge.
BTW, Wayne Presby claim is the Cog is being shifted to an Employee-Owned Stock Plan (ESOP) in the future. This shifts his ownership to the employees so at one point the employees own the firm. This is not altruistic, there are many tax advantages to this approach to the existing owner but it beats selling off to a corporation and paying some hefty capital gains. My guess is the debts for the project will end up in the ESOPs name and he will remain in firm control for several years.

Another interesting item that was mentioned is that the cog is currently limited on the ability to build future Cog engines as the current design was designed to Tier 3 standards. New Cogs would need to meet Tier 4 which are identical to Clean Diesels used on large over the road dieses. His claim is they would need to substantially change the design to accommodate Tier 4.

The cog needs three separate proceeding through the Planning Board, if they do not get all three the project does not go forward. The first is special exception for setback. The zoning rules call for 25-foot setback in this zone. They would need to get that waived by the board. They board represented that the ZBA (as separate body with different members) could approve this without significant plans in place. I used to be on a similar ZBA years ago and that was not my understanding. The State of NH and the USFS are the abutters although any resident of the county should be able to participate. The next approval is a conditional use permit from the planning board. This will require a firm plan and lot of backups to be brought before the board and probably the point where organized opposition will be involved. The final action is variance from the planning board (I was unclear on why it is separate from conditional use. The Cog is claiming they will submit a full package by this September. My guess is it will require several sessions of the planning board.
 
Great info. Thank you for attending the meeting and reporting in. Interesting and well explained.
 
Peakbagger a good summary of the meeting last night. I would just like to clarify a couple of points. The representative from the DNCR was Sarah Stewart the Commissioner of DNCR. I don't think we have everything figured out yet and there is a tremendous amount of work left to be done. Hopefully the feedback we receive will help us come up with a better plan which will address the concerns of all interested parties. The platform is to be terraced to hug the grade as much as possible. We are not anticipating needing to have more than 18 cars at the station. The Cog Railway was in existence before the hiking trails were established which cross it and by state statute you cannot get an easement across railroad property no matter how long it has been in use. The proposed pressure which could build up in the sewer line powering the turbine will be regulated by a pressure valve which will release effluent into the turbine once it reaches approximately 200 psi. The number of people visiting the State Park property cannot be limited because of a deed restriction which prevents the State from stopping members of the public from visiting the summit. They can limit access to their buildings but not the land. Setting up the ESOP is an altruistic endeavor. Whether the company is sold to an ESOP or a corporation the owner selling the stock still has to pay capital gains taxes on the sale. The benefit is that it becomes a tax free entity enabling the ESOP to buy the stock with tax free dollars so the employees acquire their interests in effect for free.
 
Thanks for the info PB. I think people will be interested in traveling back and forth between the summit building and the new project. Although the project may attract more guests, they and other summit guests may be more dispersed. I already find the summit to be crowded so the additional guests wouldn't seem to move the needle. As to the ESOP and retaining control, there are many common ways legal entities (LPs, LLCs, corps) allow for a founder/visionary/CEO to retain control without a corresponding amount of the equity. What structure ultimately is employed is up to the equity owners. The new sewage pipeline to the base stations will be...interesting. Maybe avoid it on hot summer days.
 
I look forward to seeing a set of preliminary prints of the actual project.

Locally the prior owner of The Berlin City Dealerships in Maine, NH and VT gave ESOPs a bad rep. He transferred the ownership of the dealership to an ESOP with the employees getting increasing ownership. He was very close to losing controlling interest and at the last possible minute sold his controlling interest to another company and forced the employees to sell their shares. Yes they did get some return but they lost control of the company which is what they were hoping to end up with. Berlin City in Berlin is now just a shell of what it once was as the new owners were far more interested in the Honda and Toyota franchises in South Portland and a dealership in Vermont.
 
... DNCR is the state division that includes state parks and Fish and Game. ....

Not just yet. F&G is still it's own department. DNCR has parks, forest & lands, historic sites as far as natural resource management, and a couple of other divisions. We thought the reorganization from DRED to DNCR a few years ago was going to do this. There is an employee retention/recruitment problem at F&G as well as many other state agencies right now, so such a thing may be in the future.

Funny to read about the Pelton wheel. I was going to post an April 1st post about The Cog solving the hiker shuttle issue at Franconia Notch by building a shuttle train on the current bike path, and then establish and develop a new railroad grade through the notch to use as a bike path. I was going to muse that Presby and his team developed a way to power the new shuttle train with power generated by the Mt, Washington septic line. My first thought was electrical generation, but then I was thinking maybe they could harvest compressed air to drive motors....... They are an ingenious team.
 
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Btw, what happens with the sewage line in the winter? I think it was said that it would be above ground.
 
It was discussed. The facility is only intended to be May 15th to October 15th. The line would be drained. The new line only is for the new facility, the state park is in parallel upgrading the existing wastewater disposal system for the summit complex.
 
The person designing this pipeline is going to earn his pay. Only liquids will be sent down the pipe, solids will be hauled down the mountain separately (like the state does). For general assumptions the liquids are effectively water. The term that best describes it is leachate or gray water. The elevation difference from the facility to the base station is about 3500 feet of vertical, convert that to pounds per square inch and that is about 1500 psi if the pipe is full at the base of the mountain. That pressure has to be dissipated somewhere before it goes into the leach field. If it is flowing continuously than there is some pressure loss due to friction in the pipe, the goal of a designer is to make the pipe big enough on the inside to keep the velocity of the pipe low enough not to erode the interior of the pipe. Too big of a pipe can be an issue as it really should stay full. If it was a perfectly straight sloped pipe top to bottom an oversized pipe may not be an issue, but this pipe is going to have high and low spots with variations in slope. Water is incompressible but gases are not and if the pipe is not full, pockets of gases (mostly air) will form and that air will compress randomly and despite constant flow going into the pipe, the flow will vary at the discharge due to the gas bubbles. Most large hydroelectric installs with long penstocks will have surge tanks prior to the turbine to settle this phenomenon out. The long penstock that runs along route 2 east of Montpelier has one of these surge tanks. The down side with a surge tank is the top of it has to be level with top of the inlet. Thus not practical with 3500 feet of elevation. If the flow in the pipe is intermittent, these flow dynamics get substantial and the concept of water hammer comes in where the pipe needs to be even thicker. Putting multiple Pelton wheels ( A form of a hydroelectric generator) along the pipe to reduce the pressure works when its flowing but useless if its not flowing. If the flow is metered in at the top to keep the line less than full, water hammer and surging will happen.

I used to have to deal with stock lines and water lines between the mills in Berline and Gorham with only 231 feet of elevation difference and 10,000 feet of pipe and it always amazed me how much the flow would vary with a constant flow going in at the top. a 18" diameter pipe would literally stop flowing for a couple of seconds and then start full flow. We spent a lot of our time and various consultants time trying to model the dynamics but just lived with the flow surges by discharging the lines in large surge tanks.

My guess is there will be a learning curve getting things to operate optimally. The landfill in Berlin at Mt Carberry had similar issues with leachate flow coming down off the mountain to the Berlin waste water treatment plant. I had seen some of the results on occasion where leachate surging lifted the eventually bolted down covers on manholes. Its far nastier stuff than what would be in the proposed line.
 
Peakbagger a good summary of the meeting last night. I would just like to clarify a couple of points. The representative from the DNCR was Sarah Stewart the Commissioner of DNCR. I don't think we have everything figured out yet and there is a tremendous amount of work left to be done. Hopefully the feedback we receive will help us come up with a better plan which will address the concerns of all interested parties. The platform is to be terraced to hug the grade as much as possible. We are not anticipating needing to have more than 18 cars at the station. The Cog Railway was in existence before the hiking trails were established which cross it and by state statute you cannot get an easement across railroad property no matter how long it has been in use. The proposed pressure which could build up in the sewer line powering the turbine will be regulated by a pressure valve which will release effluent into the turbine once it reaches approximately 200 psi. The number of people visiting the State Park property cannot be limited because of a deed restriction which prevents the State from stopping members of the public from visiting the summit. They can limit access to their buildings but not the land. Setting up the ESOP is an altruistic endeavor. Whether the company is sold to an ESOP or a corporation the owner selling the stock still has to pay capital gains taxes on the sale. The benefit is that it becomes a tax free entity enabling the ESOP to buy the stock with tax free dollars so the employees acquire their interests in effect for free.

Good luck with the plan. You'll do a first rate job and achieve the results wanted. Just as Sylvester March did back when. And as you have been doing over the last 17 yrs I've seen at your place.
 
We do have an engineer helping us to design the effluent pipeline. The line is going to be oversized and the plan is to have the effluent constantly trickle down this oversized line and never fill so no head is created in the line until it gets near the turbine. A pressure valve will be installed in that location allowing the line to fill until the pressure reaches 200 psi +/- at which time the pressure valve will open and release the effluent into the turbine.

Until I got commercial grid power installed at Marshfield Base Station (1987) all power for the use of the Cog was produced using two pelton water wheels. Each of these turbines were served by two 4" penstocks. Two on the Ammonoosuc Brook and two on the Franklin Brook. All the equipment in our shop was powered by overhead line shafts. There had been talk of extending a commercial power line to the base and on to the summit since the 1950s. This was driven by the fact WMTW TV was supplying all the power at the summit at the cost of $1.00 per KWH. The goal of extending commercial power to the summit was in the original master plan for the summit. I succeeded in getting the line extended to the base of the Cog in 1987 at a cost of $60,000. It was not until the state purchased the summit power operations (which almost immediately burned down in 2004?) that they decided to finally run the line up the mountain. I donated them the easement along our property. The contractor installing the line needed a bridge to cross the Ammonoosuc for his equipment to complete the installation. Since access was needed to do maintenance from time to time, I bought the bridge from him at a cost of $90,000. Eventually I was reimbursed the $60,000 for installing the line into the base and for the cost of buying the bridge. The State was not asked to provide any other funds to the Cog to complete this project. This was one of the last major projects noted in the original master plan which had not been completed. Our hope was this would eventually lead to the removal of the fuel storage tanks at the summit which were filled with 100,000 gallons of kerosene each winter. If one of these ruptured it would be an ecological disaster. We got a taste of the consequences of such a spill in the 1950s? when a tank at the jet engine testing laboratory ruptured and contaminated the ground water so badly that the State could not get potable water to drink at the summit until 1997? Prior to that, the Cog supplied all potable water to the summit using a steel pipe line and a very large pump. Each year the cog was paid $3,000 to supply water, maintain the pipeline and operate the pump.

Getting power brought up the Western side of the mountain had an added benefit. It meant the Base Road would need to be plowed to provide maintenance access. This gave the hiking community and the Cog access to the Base Station all winter. Prior to this, the Base Road was closed all winter to only snowmobile traffic. Lack of access to the Cog's property was a major contribution to its significant deterioration over several decades. The cog still is responsible for maintaining the Base Road and this affords hikers easy access to the Ammonoosuc and Jewel trails during the winter.
 
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Thanks Cograilway. I find your posts very interesting and informative.
 
Thanks Cograilway. I find your posts very interesting and informative.

I agree. Thank you for posting. Nice to have a fresh perspective. Good Luck with your plans going forward.
 
I agree. Thank you for posting. Nice to have a fresh perspective. Good Luck with your plans going forward.

I'll jump on the band wagon too. These accurate posts describing the history are great
 
I agree. Thank you for posting. Nice to have a fresh perspective. Good Luck with your plans going forward.

Thank you for the support. Having owned the Cog railway for 40 years something was bound to sink in. By the way I love your cover photo of the sumo wrestler on jumping skis. Although I am not quite as rotund as that fellow it reminds me of going off the old trestle jump in Berlin. It was scary just climbing that thing.
 
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