Looking for a new hiking map app

[NH2112]

AllTrails doesn’t support USGS topo maps any more, and I don’t like any of their other options at all. I also have OnX, and while its default topo map is better than AllTrails’ it’s still not as good as USGS. So, does anyone have an app that uses USGS maps to recommend?

 

[JToll]

Have you tried Caltopo?

 

[JoshandBaron]

Gaia and Caltopo are probably your best bets. Caltopo is more powerful but Gaia is much more intuitive and a prettier UI without much sacrifice. They both give access to a large number of different mapsets, USGS being just one of them. Both have free versions but aren't much without a subscription. I tend to use Gaia more. Both are head and shoulders above AllFails.

 

[DavidG]

I like Caltopo

 

[Ken MacGray]

Gaia.

Like All Trails, it has its share of incorrect information, but includes an impressive array of map layers, USGS and historic topos among them. Personally, I find the subscription worth it.

 

[Nessmuk]

The NYSDEC recently moved from years of widespread use of Terrain Navigator Pro to now full support and use of Caltopo/SARtopo, which is particularly important for SAR incident field operations. Good news for me because after many years of requests to the company, TNP. has always fiercely rejected creating a version for Apple OS users.

Anyone using any PC or Mac or smartphone operating system can easily use the very useful basic free form of Caltopo, but its fully integrated high level mapping and oprerational functions have a steep learning curve and are best learned through a formal demonstration during a hands-on training course given by an expert in its full mapping software capabilities.

 

[Bushwacked]

Gaia with the full subscription. It's worth it and checks a lot of boxes for me. Also, I've used it forever so it's a tool that is very familiar and easy to use.

 

[NHChris]

I've been following the 100 Highest FB page lately just for fun. Wow, a lot has changed since I completed the 100 in 2002.

No more maps and compass for bushwhacks. Apparently there are public AllTrails tracks for all the whacks. NO FUN!!

As folks complete the 100 these days they thank the group for beta on driving/parking for the bushwhacks and for accurate tracks to follow when in the woods. Where's the fun in that?

I fondly remember the thrill of naving the deep woods with a map, compass and some common sense. We were never "lost" but we also didn't know exactly where we were. Sun over left shoulder on way in means over right shoulder on way home.

Much more fulfilling to me than following a track on my god dam iPhone!

 

[Nessmuk]

I've been following the 100 Highest FB page lately just for fun. Wow, a lot has changed since I completed the 100 in 2002.

No more maps and compass for bushwhacks. Apparently there are public AllTrails tracks for all the whacks. NO FUN!!

As folks complete the 100 these days they thank the group for beta on driving/parking for the bushwhacks and for accurate tracks to follow when in the woods. Where's the fun in that?

I fondly remember the thrill of naving the deep woods with a map, compass and some common sense. We were never "lost" but we also didn't know exactly where we were. Sun over left shoulder on way in means over right shoulder on way home.

Much more fulfilling to me than following a track on my god dam iPhone!

That has always been my philosophy about navigation, whether it be in the air or on land. I started life learning to land navigate from my father, who, at first was a mystery to me how he did it without any trails and only rarely referring to a simple lapel compass. (with knowledge that was already in his head). But it was in familiar lands which soon enough became just as familiar to me what he was doing, with certain hardpoint known physical landmarks becoming fixed checkpoints to guide me as I traveled on my route.

That was the beginning of my own much deeper map and compass (with my brain) self-taught detailed bushwhack navigation method education to reach destinations deep in the untrailed portions of the western Adirondacks (I did not enjoy going to the overcrowded over trailed high peaks region). There is great satisfaction in reaching multiple destinations miles apart with precision using only proven old school methods with Map, Compass, observation, and terrain association, and being able to point to my exact location on the map at any time during my wildlands travels (without using GPS of course). By the way, sun over left shoulder on the morning trip in may mean it is also over left shoulder hours later during the afternoon return out.

Later, as an Air Force military flight navigator and eventual flight check instructor officer, I took much pride in being known for accomplishing highly accurate air navigation of the day using only compass, chart, ground mapping radar (where available), and sextant, with dead reckoning, including missions over the North Pole from Alaska and as far as the Far East and Australia across the open Pacific. Satellite GPS did not yet exist during my active duty flying days.

Building from that and continuing my love of bushwhack deep woods travel, I have developed land navigation instruction programs for SAR teams and have taught land nav training courses, as a paid systems information expert for my state division of homeland security to state and local law enforcement and other official agencies. For 30 years I taught BSA young adult high adventure trek leader guides how to navigate accurately and safely. Of course GPS is a necessary tool in this technology age, particularly for SAR, and I do have a GPS training version, but will not teach it until and unless the student is proficient at map and compass first.

 

[skiguy]

I've been following the 100 Highest FB page lately just for fun. Wow, a lot has changed since I completed the 100 in 2002.

No more maps and compass for bushwhacks. Apparently there are public AllTrails tracks for all the whacks. NO FUN!!

As folks complete the 100 these days they thank the group for beta on driving/parking for the bushwhacks and for accurate tracks to follow when in the woods. Where's the fun in that?

I fondly remember the thrill of naving the deep woods with a map, compass and some common sense. We were never "lost" but we also didn't know exactly where we were. Sun over left shoulder on way in means over right shoulder on way home.

Much more fulfilling to me than following a track on my god dam iPhone!

I here you. It's changed even more since '83. I think there were less than 150-200 of us finishers then and very few known winter finishers. Don't know if I would even bother with it now. The impact of large groups is the most discerning. Seeing groups of 10 or more on Peaks where what use to be 2-4 hikers is the worst part IMO. Yea I'm as old as dirt now and self-proclaimed curmudgeon. But the days of Map, Compass, research and beta by word of mouth was the biggest challenge and the biggest reward. I also particularly enjoyed being on Gene Daniel's mailing list and getting hand typed info about climbing the 100 highest. Gene use to advocate having minimum impact on the Boundry and Snow hike. Kennebago Divide was not on the list back then. Back then he encouraged folks to attend the AMC's Labor Day trip which was limited in size to hike that area in order to minimize impact. Also, special permission was needed to enter a gated and manned approach via Big Island Pond Camps. He really wanted also to maintain a positive relationship with that group. Then people started coming into that area via other ways which avoided needing special permission so thence the beginning of increased impact. Somehow it seemed the game was about detaching from civilization then. Not exacerbating and drowning the woods in technology. I'll go get back in my rocking chair now and enjoy the fond memories.

 

[NHChris]

What's unfortunate for today's whackers is the dumbing down of the 100 achievement. I'm no genius but I had to put some time and effort into route research, learning nav and acquiring field skills. They miss all that fun stuff and that to me was the best part of the 100 exercise. In the end who really gives a shit whether you've climbed 100 peaks or not? It's the journey to get there.

An aside: I attended one of Gene's 6-pack weekends and that was the first n last time I hiked with him. At that time his health was beginning to fail and diabetes was gaining the upper hand. His dogged determinism to see the Boundary/Whitecap whack through was impressive. He stopped to puke twice on the Boundary leg but would not bail. He had a sense of responsibility to the folks on the trip. Seeing his determination and principled approach I understood why he went to Jail for his C. O. beliefs during Viet Nam.

 

[jrcinnh]

I've used Gaia for years, I have the legacy subscription.
I love it except it does a bad job calculating gain on long complex trips.
I do love all the alternative base map even if they are not perfect. There was no Mt Eisenhower in 1930...

 

[hikeritz]

I mostly use OsmAnd+ (the paid subscription), but I don't use the topo map plugin. I only use the app to double check my route at trail junctions, etc., and I always carry a paper map & compass. I've also got Gaia, All Trails, Trail Forks, Far Out, and US Topo Map apps on my phone. Depending upon the activity and cell signal, each has a use.

 

[Nessmuk]

I receive the NYSDEC weekly SAR reports. one of my favorite very common responses is when assistance is give to the subject who says something like: "I did not think to bring a flashlight or headlamp because my phone has a light built in, and it also has a compass and a map app. Besides, I did not plan to be out after dark." This past week there were at least two of this type:

Town of Schroon
Essex County
Wilderness Rescue: On Aug. 13 at 7:40 p.m., a hiker called for help from the top of Pharaoh Mountain reporting they were unable to find the trail to Crane Pond. Forest Ranger Savarie attempted to direct the 56-year-old from Michigan over the phone. The subject could not locate the trail and was now out of food and exhausted. Rangers Quinn and Savarie reached the hiker, provided food and water, and walked him to the trailhead at Crane Pond. Resources were clear at 12:45 a.m.

Knowing how to use a map and compass is an important part of hiking. While apps can be helpful, phones lose battery power quickly in the wilderness. Know before you go - Learn more about safe hiking tips on DEC’s website.

Town of North Elba
Essex County
Wilderness Rescue: On Aug. 17 at 6:30 p.m., two hikers called for assistance finding the path back down Seward Mountain. The hikers didn’t have a compass or headlamps. Forest Rangers Jansen and Nahor reached the two hikers in their forties from Horseheads and helped them to the Ward Brook lean-to. Resources were clear at 2:14 a.m.

Check out Hike Smart NY for lists of essential hiking gear and tips to stay safe on the trails.

 

[Ear Drum]

I plan trips using GaiaGPS (to see trails and routes), CalTopo (especially for drawing routes, it's a good interface for that), and AllTrails (just to see other's tracks - yeah, taking the fun out of discovery out there). Also a few different paper maps, and several guidebooks, and multiple websites.

On trail, I usually track myself with Strava (mostly as a self check-in that I've been moving, so I run it for every walk and hike), and Gaia (as a personal record of places I've been - I usually don't track something a second time).

I really like the Gaia interface of all the apps/sites, it's intuitive and easy to mark spots (water sources for instance).

 

[sierra]

AllTrails doesn’t support USGS topo maps any more, and I don’t like any of their other options at all. I also have OnX, and while its default topo map is better than AllTrails’ it’s still not as good as USGS. So, does anyone have an app that uses USGS maps to recommend?

Forgive my ignorance, but I pay for the pro version of Alltrails and used it yesterday, I didn't notice anything different?

 

[NH2112]

Thanks to everyone who replied, I haven’t logged in for a couple days and didn’t realize I’d have so many responses LOL. It looks like Gaia and CalTopo are the ones to try. I haven’t used AllTrails as anything but a topo map to plan routes when I’m going cross-country and to get an estimate of how far I’ve traveled, so its inaccuracies aren’t really a problem.

I just don’t understand why they’d stop supporting USGS maps, the AllTrails maps show almost no detail and if you have units set to imperial they just put the imperial equivalent of each 100m index line, so you’re looking at 2625’ (800m), 2953’ (900m), 3281’ (1000m), etc. Way too much mental arithmetic to convert and add or subtract 66’ for every 20m contour line.

 

[NH2112]

Forgive my ignorance, but I pay for the pro version of Alltrails and used it yesterday, I didn't notice anything different?

I have the AllTrails+ subscription ($36/year) and the only way I can get USGS maps is if I’ve already downloaded them for offline use. Other than that my map choices are AllTrails, satellite, road, and terrain.

 

[Dave Bourque]

NH2112,
Your question certainly created a lot of dialog. Lots of fun stuff here. I'm starting to slow down but I have been bushwhacking for over 50 years. I find it is still much more fun to navigate with only a map and compass. Getting a feel for the lay of the land, using natural landmarks to guide you, visiting places that few do, you can't beat it. I've read through the responses, but I guess I'm still a little confused by your original question. Are you looking for on-line maps OR are you looking for a GPS application for your phone (that can use those on-line maps)? You have been getting answers to both these questions.

I still haven't bought a "real" GPS, but I have used them. They are quite the modern tool. Hiking GPS devices are no different than the GPS in your car. They will take you to exactly where you want to go. They can follow GPS tracks that other hikers have uploaded. They will guide you anywhere and also provide lots of other information. They are an amazing device but, if this is your only way of navigating in the backcountry and it fails for any reason, you now are on your own. I have always believed that anyone that hikes off trail should have competent map and compass skills. Plus, it's just fun.

That all being said, I have an Android phone. I use Backcountry Navigator. It accepts all the common maps including CalTopo. You can pre-download any needed maps. I have been using CalTopo because it is free. Last time I checked Backcountry Navigator was $10. It utilizes the GPS satellites, not cell towers so you put your phone on Airplane Mode while hiking thus saving power. I still don't use my phone for navigation, but it has been fun to find out my elevation gain and loss after some off-trail hikes.

 

[NH2112]

NH2112,
Your question certainly created a lot of dialog. Lots of fun stuff here. I'm starting to slow down but I have been bushwhacking for over 50 years. I find it is still much more fun to navigate with only a map and compass. Getting a feel for the lay of the land, using natural landmarks to guide you, visiting places that few do, you can't beat it. I've read through the responses, but I guess I'm still a little confused by your original question. Are you looking for on-line maps OR are you looking for a GPS application for your phone (that can use those on-line maps)? You have been getting answers to both these questions.

I still haven't bought a "real" GPS, but I have used them. They are quite the modern tool. Hiking GPS devices are no different than the GPS in your car. They will take you to exactly where you want to go. They can follow GPS tracks that other hikers have uploaded. They will guide you anywhere and also provide lots of other information. They are an amazing device but, if this is your only way of navigating in the backcountry and it fails for any reason, you now are on your own. I have always believed that anyone that hikes off trail should have competent map and compass skills. Plus, it's just fun.

That all being said, I have an Android phone. I use Backcountry Navigator. It accepts all the common maps including CalTopo. You can pre-download any needed maps. I have been using CalTopo because it is free. Last time I checked Backcountry Navigator was $10. It utilizes the GPS satellites, not cell towers so you put your phone on Airplane Mode while hiking thus saving power. I still don't use my phone for navigation, but it has been fun to find out my elevation gain and loss after some off-trail hikes.

I’m looking for a mapping app that works as a GPS lite, I don’t need the ability to program a route to follow with waypoints or other advanced features. Tracking and the ability to download maps for offline use, or, like with AllTrails, being able to track your route in no-service areas as long as the app was already running, are the only functions I really need. And USGS maps.