Old Bridle Path Info, anyone?

[Bushwhack]

Hey There,

I've been planning on using the time off after christmas to bring a few people up lafayette via the old bridle path. We'll be microspiking it up the trail, but I was wondering if anyone knew if there was any snow up there. I like to sled down the bigger ones in the winter, but if the weather up there is anything like it is down here on the coast, I'm guessing the mountain is a mass of ice and rock. Has anyone been up there recently? new england trail conditions site doesn't have particularly recent information.

Also, I've been using cheaper sleds that tend to crack and break. does anyone have any brand of sled that is sturdy that they would recommend?

Thanks!

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I drove by today and Lafayette.Snow > Lincoln.Snow > Liberty.Snow > Flume.Snow. I doubt it will be snowshoe conditions, but it could be crampon conditions.

Tim

 

[TJsName]

For sleds I recommend the Merikan Missile. A good price is $20-$30. You'll find them usually listed for $40-$50. They are on sale at the website right now for $30, which is worth grabbing. They are a little heavier than those cheap ones, but they are really durable and offer a great ride. http://www.merikanmissile.com/specials.html

 

[peakbagger]

The old standard for sleds was the Swiss Bob, they went out of production for several years but the merikan missile appears to be a update of the original. I have not had my hands on the missile but the big advantage of the swiss bob that hopefully carried forward to the merrikan is a blow molded shell, that has an upper and lower surface with a air gap in between. There was one scratchy winter similar to the current one where several VFTT folks bruised/broke tail bones butt sliding when they encountered a root or rock sticking above the snow with their tailbone. The air gap in the swiss bob absorbs and spreads the impact quite well. I find a coat of carwax prior to the hike makes them even more slippery

The big warning is that these sleds can and do become missiles and if common sense is not used, the law of gravity still applies. Its quite easy to get going way to fast and low hanging branch or rock in the path can cause a lot of damage. One hint is if you have snowshoes, tie them on you pack so the tails hang low. If you get going too fast, lean back and the tails acts as extra braking.

Sledding down hiking trails has its detractors in the whites and sounds like its a ticketable offense in the ADKs so caveat emptor. There was also some abuse of ski areas where large groups of hikers would plan events around sledding down the ski slopes after the ski areas were closed and sledding down many ski areas is against the rules.

 

[alexmtn]

I can't give you first-hand beta on the OBP, but did lead trips to the Kinsmans and Galehead/Twins this weekend. Above 3000', lots of ice flows mixed with bare rocks, sometimes under a few inches of snow. Several instances in our groups of folks slipping on canted ice flows where MicroSpikes didn't hold -- sometimes because the snow was enough to swallow the spikes, and sometimes because the ice was too hard for the spikes to engage. Hillsounds worked well, save for occasional balling. Descending the N.Twin Trail was incredibly icy. Snow presence was not front-of-mind. In one spot on S.Twin's summit (~400' less than Lafayette), we walked through a 6"-deep drift, but that was a one-off.

The Fall/Winter transition is tough on traction gear. You don't want to wear it because all the exposed rock dulls it -- but if you don't wear it, you *are* going to slip. If you do a lot of hiking in these conditions, don't forget to check your spikes or crampons for sharpness regularly.

Alex

 

[TJsName]

The old standard for sleds was the Swiss Bob, they went out of production for several years but the merikan missile appears to be a update of the original. I have not had my hands on the missile but the big advantage of the swiss bob that hopefully carried forward to the merrikan is a blow molded shell, that has an upper and lower surface with a air gap in between. There was one scratchy winter similar to the current one where several VFTT folks bruised/broke tail bones butt sliding when they encountered a root or rock sticking above the snow with their tailbone. The air gap in the swiss bob absorbs and spreads the impact quite well. I find a coat of carwax prior to the hike makes them even more slippery

The big warning is that these sleds can and do become missiles and if common sense is not used, the law of gravity still applies. Its quite easy to get going way to fast and low hanging branch or rock in the path can cause a lot of damage. One hint is if you have snowshoes, tie them on you pack so the tails hang low. If you get going too fast, lean back and the tails acts as extra braking.

Sledding down hiking trails has its detractors in the whites and sounds like its a ticketable offense in the ADKs so caveat emptor. There was also some abuse of ski areas where large groups of hikers would plan events around sledding down the ski slopes after the ski areas were closed and sledding down many ski areas is against the rules.

My buddy that introduced sledding had a swiss bob. The merikan offers an even softer ride that really saves the tailbone (and makes for a good seat in general). Helps with both scratchy conditions, as well as frozen bootprints. I did blow one out last winter though, but I'm fairly larger (over 300lbs with my winter day pack on). The sled did last a long time before it happened though.

+1 for common sense. They are best used on trails with a steady moderate grade - basically any trail that has a grueling, unrelenting ascent (e.g. Tecumseh, North Twin, Glencliff, Avalon, Spur, Liberty Spring, etc.). Going down anything that is very steep becomes less fun as you can't check your speed as easily. Trail conditions matter a lot too, so moderate steep plus ice could be dangerous, whereas steep plus fresh snow can be awesome.

Sledding down a ski area from the summit sounds terrifying. A lot of the control one gets is the ability to check their speed on the softer sides of the trails. Ski trails are typically packed very hard and offer little chance to slowdown. If you don't have a long run out, I'd avoid it. A lot of the fun of sledding in the trails is the steering down the trail, and moving without standing, not from going fast. It's a pretty cool experience - especially at night!

The waxing idea is interesting. Do you think xc ski wax would make sense too?

 

[richard]

Hey There,

I've been planning on using the time off after christmas to bring a few people up lafayette via the old bridle path. We'll be microspiking it up the trail, but I was wondering if anyone knew if there was any snow up there. I like to sled down the bigger ones in the winter, but if the weather up there is anything like it is down here on the coast, I'm guessing the mountain is a mass of ice and rock. Has anyone been up there recently? new england trail conditions site doesn't have particularly recent information.

Also, I've been using cheaper sleds that tend to crack and break. does anyone have any brand of sled that is sturdy that they would recommend?

Thanks!

Also, I've been using cheaper sleds that tend to crack and break. does anyone have any brand of sled that is sturdy that they would recommend?

I`ve been using a "slidy sled" the last couple of yrs. It`s very light. You can hook it to your backpack. It works great.

 

[Bushwhack]

Thanks to all for the advice. Given the conditions reported for the kinsmans, I think we may wait on the sleds for more snow. I will certainly look into the mountain missile.

My method of keeping the sled from becoming a runaway missile is to use a very short and easily breakable strong to tie the sled to a belt loop. It is usually about ten inches long, to short to become tangled around necks, and not strong enough to cause injury if the sled gets caught and I keep going. If the setting breaks, it does run away, but the string does help. I agree that it is important to know the grade of the trail beforehand- I tried this on mount Abraham a few years ago, and it did not work well. I've done it quite a bit on Lafayette, though, and obp works pretty well when there is snow.

 

[dug]

As part of my yearly rant, please remember that there are others coming up, and going down, the trail. I've been run into before, and had to dive into the woods to avoid a collision a few times. I've also been run into from behind.

Not a fan....

 

[bikehikeskifish]

As part of my yearly rant, please remember that there are others coming up, and going down, the trail. I've been run into before, and had to dive into the woods to avoid a collision a few times. I've also been run into from behind.

Not a fan....

Not to mention what is does to the ski track

Tim

 

[dug]

Not to mention what is does to the ski track

Tim

touche` .

 

[1SlowHiker]

I was interested in the Merikan Missile but googled its weight as 5 lbs. Is that about correct. I wouldn't want to carry an extra 5 lbs in the winter. But; any chance this thing could double as pulk for trails that start off as gentle slopes: Pull up with winter pack on it until trail gets steep, stash in woods when trail gets steep, then on the way back pick it up and sled where you can (safely) on the way down?

 

[peakbagger]

I dont have a scale handy but a swiss bob doesn't weigh anywhere near 5 pounds. It is bit a bulky. Even though they have been out of production for several years, here is one on ebayhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/Swiss-Bob-Sled-by-MPH-Swiss-Made-Snow-Board-Vintage-/361446872116?hash=item5427e99434:g:uf8AAOSwxN5WaKxc I dont think it would work well as a pulk as generally you want higher length to width ratio in order for it to track well. I expect it would end up tangled in a tree off to the side in short order. If you look at the physics a rope tied to a short sled is going to tip it up easier than a longer sled and the only way it will track well if the entire bottom is in contact with the ground. The longer the rope the better chance of ground contact but the better chance of it ending up in the trees.

Many folks switched over to the teardrop shaped single layer plastic devices that have toggle for a handle. They sit down on it with the toggle between the legs. It doesn't take up a lot of space. There is no cushioning so an encounter with a rock or root could still lead to a bruised tailbone. When I first started swiss bobbing, a couple of older locals (I would guess late sixties early seventies) who sled the Sherburne trail every few days showed me the recommended modification to swiss bobs which was to glue on a piece of ensolite pad. It definitely improved grip and also is bit warmer to sit on.

In general I usually plan a hike with sledding in mind rather than using a sled as tool for serious winter hikes. Its good group social activity. My nylon bib pants are plenty slippery enough to use without a sled for sufficient snow cover and some folks carry a contractor grade trash bag to use for sliding which can be used for other purposes.

A great place to try it out is the Sherburne trail coming down out of Tuckermans Ravine. I can make a couple of runs in a day. Out of general courtesy, I only use it during the morning and up to about mid day as the skiers tend to take it over later in the day. The stretch heading down South Hancock to the intersection with the trail to North Hancock is somewhat infamous for sliding, even if you dont plan to slide, the steepness makes it real hard to descend even with crampons.

 

[TJsName]

I was interested in the Merikan Missile but googled its weight as 5 lbs. Is that about correct. I wouldn't want to carry an extra 5 lbs in the winter. But; any chance this thing could double as pulk for trails that start off as gentle slopes: Pull up with winter pack on it until trail gets steep, stash in woods when trail gets steep, then on the way back pick it up and sled where you can (safely) on the way down?

I believe it's just under 3lbs. IIRC, it's slightly heavier than the swiss bob, but worth the extra weight if you know you can use it.