Most excellent info. Bjorn would agree. A must read for sure. Here is a link to the third addition from 2009. Not sure it has been upgraded since. But the base knowledge is something every outdoorsman should know. Always found this publication a very good way to start learning and going forward to learning the craft.
The changing innovations of what we do for fun
- Thread starter B the Hiker
- Start date
peakbagger
Well-known member
Back when I was a boy scout, Maine put in mandatory Hunter Safety courses for anyone who wanted a hunting license. We were affliliated with a local rod and gun club and they needed help running lots of people through a hunter safety course (during the good old days before the NRA became a political organization). We ended up taking the course several times. They didnt spend a lot of time on map and compass as the basis of the course was if in doubt and lost stay put. They did cover what to do if coming out the woods on a road. One hint was stop and take a look at the numbers on a couple of phone poles before heading into th woods. The numbers tend to be sequential so if you came out on a pole you could make a reasonable guess which way to turn. The other trick on woods roads (no poles) is to take a look at which way the debris were piled up on the edges of the roads, in most cases roads were put in with bulldozers and generally walking in the opposite direction of how the road was built would get you to civilization quicker. Both really basic
LL Beans was a big sponsor of the program, they gave all people who successfully finished the course a hunters orange belt pouch and the Maine department of Fish and Wildlife supplied a pocket sized book of the basics with a hunters orange front and rear cover. This was long before the state mandated all hunters to wear hunters orange. I think I have one of the belt pouches somewhere around the house.
LL Beans was a big sponsor of the program, they gave all people who successfully finished the course a hunters orange belt pouch and the Maine department of Fish and Wildlife supplied a pocket sized book of the basics with a hunters orange front and rear cover. This was long before the state mandated all hunters to wear hunters orange. I think I have one of the belt pouches somewhere around the house.
CaptCaper
Member
You can do # 2 very easy on a Garmin gps. I do it all the time for many years. You save each track/trip and chose a color then show on map opton. Also the planned route is made active.
John H Swanson
Active member
yeah. synthetics (nylon and Polypro) vs. canvas and cotton, then 60/40. As already mentioned, LED lighting
I also really appreciated oil dampening of compass needles. and wrist mounted altimeters.
I also really appreciated oil dampening of compass needles. and wrist mounted altimeters.
Beckie and Prema
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When I think about the old sleeping bags from the 70s and what I have now....
At 4 ft 9 I have a hard time reaching stuff, like tossing that rope over that high branch on a tree that is really too close to all the other trees for a bear hang. So I don't even bother, gave up and ordered a great cannister. Two wishes - a really mini version in case it's a short overnight and a lighter weight that wouldn't cost the equivalent of my mortgage payment.
At 4 ft 9 I have a hard time reaching stuff, like tossing that rope over that high branch on a tree that is really too close to all the other trees for a bear hang. So I don't even bother, gave up and ordered a great cannister. Two wishes - a really mini version in case it's a short overnight and a lighter weight that wouldn't cost the equivalent of my mortgage payment.
Dana
Member
Of course... but sometimes terrain or the desire to explore pushes you in a direction you didn't intend.
Nessmuk
Active member
That's all part of the exploration/discovery game, and how one gains experience.
sierra
Well-known member
To be honest, there are no technological advances that have had any benefit to me whatsoever. In fact, they have made my overall experience in the backcountry considerably worse. The invention of the mobile phone, GPS and the number 1 nemesis of mine, the internet and social media. Crowds of people with little to no backcountry ethic or love for that matter. Litter, trail erosion, crowded trails, loose unruly house dogs, unsociable people, list chasers and gridiots that can barely sustain their ego's. The posting of countless selfies and trip reports of the most popular trails leading to continuing erosion at the cost if Instagram and FB fame. I have made some adjustments that have mitigated some of these issues, but alas, it will continue to get worse, not better. I'm glad I climbed FR so many times, my memory is enough now and I can write it off as a lost cause for good. I'm very fortunate to be 59, I lived and climbed at a time, when the Whites were still pure and the backcountry was a haven for a few like-minded enthusiasts, that shared a comradery and passion, everyone you met was a friend. Guyot shelter on a Saturday night with just 3 friends, Desolation shelter all to yourself and nobody around sometimes for 3 or 4 days. Carter Notch hut on a winter weekend, 5 people and the caretaker sitting around drinking and talking backcountry. Yes, it's cliche, but those were the "good ole days" and nobody could convince me otherwise.
peakbagger
Well-known member
I am 63 and have hiked in the whites since high school. I dont remember the days you do. Even in the early eighties I remember 40 people camped at near Desolation Shelter on a summer weekend (the Brutus era). I remember Guyot campsite being filled to capacity on weekends. I do agree the winter use has increased substantially so your winter experiences back then are probably accurate. Take a look at the chapter about overcrowding of the mountains in Forest and Crag in the eighties and its sounds like today.
B the Hiker
Well-known member
I began hiking around 1999/2000, and I can attest that the crowds were absolutely nothing like they are today. Yes, on nice weekends, Guyot shelter would fill, but now it fills by the early afternoon. One could park below Cannon and see a dozen cars at most, now that lot fills to capacity and requires three rangers on a summer weekend. Shuttles now run for the Franconia lots, lots that often fill before sunup. The enormous lot for the Wilderness Trail on the Kanc routinely fills so that cars are parked a quarter mile or more on a summer morning.
I did a Pemi Loop midweek last summer. People camped illegally left and right. I spoke to a twenty-something about it, and he told me he was in "an approved site" and attempted to prove it to me by showing that his site was tagged on hiking app!
Since the selfie crowd hit, one literally sees the changes in the trails, where the newbies walk around objects instead of over them, widening trails instead of walking up the middle.
That is entirely due to Facebook and the apps the selfie-crowd are using. For better or for worse, social media has completely and utterly altered the hiking experience one has in the Whites on a nice day.
sierra
Well-known member
If you cannot distinguish the Whites now from the Whites in 1980, then I have no idea what to tell you. Your reply frankly is not supported by the numbers. I've read Forest and Crag.
peakbagger
Well-known member
I really would like to see statistically supported numbers on usage of the whites on the long term that I presume would be the "numbers" you refer to. I really have not seen any "numbers" that could be relied upon to establish a long term trend of usage. Yes the number of 4K applicants has gone way up and popular day hike routes to 4Ks are mobbed but head out into the non 4K areas and I dont see crowds on the trails. On many non 4K trips I rarely see anyone even on popular weekends where I have a tough time parking. Once I turn off a 4 K route, it gets real quiet. Most of the time about all I see are a few trail runners. The numbers I typically see are short term used to support or refute some project. I do see day use crowds on popular day hike routes to 4 ks have gone way up. My usage during peak times has decreased so perhaps this has changed my subjective views of usage. I do remember quite vividly one summer weekend in the late seventies climbing up Tucks to the summit and it being almost a steady line from Pinkham to the summit. It was particularly in focus when climbing the headwall and looking back down. the trail and seeing what a line of hikers with at best 10 to 20 foot intervals between the groups.
Subjectively, in the last few years I still see a decreased overnight use of the backcountry other than very specific sites like Guyot or other AT sites. Even in non wilderness areas where the 200 foot does not apply, when wandering around in the woods off the trails I find evidence of past campsites and fire rings that used to get a lot of use at one point but have far less use now. I on occasion can date the use by looking at the occasional old fashioned pull tabs or fire rings and the pull tabs themselves. I cite Thoreau Falls trail, particularly along the stream at the upper crossing. lower Shoal Pond trail and multiple spots along Moriah Brook trail that look like they were heavily used and abused 30 or 40 years ago that are slowly recovering and get far less use.
I will agree, use has shifted and day use of the 4k trails has exploded but during the roughly 2 years pre Covid that I was hanging out with "redliners" (pre name change) doing more obscure trails. I saw lots of evidence of far less trail use where bootleg sites and scarred trees are growing back in, trails are growing in and blowdowns are far more evident than in the past. Sure, some of it may be less trail maintenance, but it is also less usage. Plenty of trails in the Evans Notch area especially the Caribou Speckled wilderness are very difficult to follow despite evidence they were used far more in the past.
In general, my experience is if I want to see crowds I know where to find them and if I do not want to see crowds, I know where to go. IMO, 5% of the trails are getting 95% of the use.
Subjectively, in the last few years I still see a decreased overnight use of the backcountry other than very specific sites like Guyot or other AT sites. Even in non wilderness areas where the 200 foot does not apply, when wandering around in the woods off the trails I find evidence of past campsites and fire rings that used to get a lot of use at one point but have far less use now. I on occasion can date the use by looking at the occasional old fashioned pull tabs or fire rings and the pull tabs themselves. I cite Thoreau Falls trail, particularly along the stream at the upper crossing. lower Shoal Pond trail and multiple spots along Moriah Brook trail that look like they were heavily used and abused 30 or 40 years ago that are slowly recovering and get far less use.
I will agree, use has shifted and day use of the 4k trails has exploded but during the roughly 2 years pre Covid that I was hanging out with "redliners" (pre name change) doing more obscure trails. I saw lots of evidence of far less trail use where bootleg sites and scarred trees are growing back in, trails are growing in and blowdowns are far more evident than in the past. Sure, some of it may be less trail maintenance, but it is also less usage. Plenty of trails in the Evans Notch area especially the Caribou Speckled wilderness are very difficult to follow despite evidence they were used far more in the past.
In general, my experience is if I want to see crowds I know where to find them and if I do not want to see crowds, I know where to go. IMO, 5% of the trails are getting 95% of the use.
DayTrip
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Weren't the lists created to alleviate severe over use back in the 70's and 80's? I remember my uncle telling me stories of a lot of above tree line camping, lot of trash, etc. I believe others here in old threads have mentioned that to. Not sure how that era compared to now but I assume there have been prior "boom" periods.
I can only comment on the last 10 years up there but in that time I've seen a massive increase in foot traffic, parking issues, trash, trail erosion and braiding, etc., etc. I agree a huge concentration of it is on the popular 4k trails but I've been running into more and more people even in the recesses of "off the beaten path" wilderness areas like deep into the Great Gulf, Wild River, Caribou Speckled and others. Still pretty quiet there relatively speaking but they're getting discovered. Hopefully this is peak usage and something else will captivate the Instagrammers going forward....
I can only comment on the last 10 years up there but in that time I've seen a massive increase in foot traffic, parking issues, trash, trail erosion and braiding, etc., etc. I agree a huge concentration of it is on the popular 4k trails but I've been running into more and more people even in the recesses of "off the beaten path" wilderness areas like deep into the Great Gulf, Wild River, Caribou Speckled and others. Still pretty quiet there relatively speaking but they're getting discovered. Hopefully this is peak usage and something else will captivate the Instagrammers going forward....
peakbagger
Well-known member
Folks were complaining about the crowds on the trails in the sixties. The Great Gulf was so overrun that the FS put in permit system for a couple of years to limit usage and actually enforced it. I did a backpack with my older brother around 1979 and the place was packed, far more than I have seen it in recent years. We followed the 200 foot rule and spent quite a while looking for legal spots to camp near the junction with Six Husbands trail, there were tents in every flat spot near the trail included several tents from a Sierra Club group trip that were set up in the trail. Talk to anyone in the eighties about Franconia Falls and the campsites hundreds of yards in the woods in either direction with some groups using wheelbarrows to roll their gear in. Take the fisherman's bushwhack sometimes and you will encounter many of these old sites.
The 4K list predates the crowds A History of the New Hampshire 4,000-Footers List. but its use as diversion from the popular trails seems to have been ramped up during the late seventies/eighties hiking boom. And of course the Internet going commercial in the mid nineties opened up the lists although many for the original VFTT folks had access to the usenet groups prior to that and places like VFTT became alternatives to the very popular but seriously degraded Rec.backcountry. I know a lot of my early trails intel came secondhand from folks who had access to rec.backcountry and was willing to wade through the flame wars and trolls.
The 4K list predates the crowds A History of the New Hampshire 4,000-Footers List. but its use as diversion from the popular trails seems to have been ramped up during the late seventies/eighties hiking boom. And of course the Internet going commercial in the mid nineties opened up the lists although many for the original VFTT folks had access to the usenet groups prior to that and places like VFTT became alternatives to the very popular but seriously degraded Rec.backcountry. I know a lot of my early trails intel came secondhand from folks who had access to rec.backcountry and was willing to wade through the flame wars and trolls.
JoshandBaron
Member
The 52 WAV is a list...
Dana
Member
I do a lot of hiking in Harriman as we have a cabin in the area, and the increase in numbers starting with covid (when NYC people couldn't reach their usual destinations) is appalling. 10 years ago you could usually find space in a lean-to, now it's not unusual to see 25 or more tents pitched around the lean-to area. And don't even get me started about the road traffic...
Dr. Dasypodidae
Well-known member
We did not find the Waumbek-Weeks traverse too crowded on 1 January 2001. 🙂
peakbagger
Well-known member
I find that hikers are far less likely to complain about too many people on the trail in the winter if there is a nice solid track top to bottom. When I was working on the winter list in the early to mid nineties, about 1 out of three hikes were broken out recently, with the remaining split between older tracks that had been filled with recent snowstorms and just plain unbroken. In a couple of cases it meant not making the summit when we went way past our turn around time due to changing conditions. Normally it results in late supper, in one case on the Weeks it was a very long event that almost turned into an unplanned overnight and possible very unpleasant consequences rather than mild case of hypothermia and a very short night of sleep.
The nice thing when unburdened with the need or ability to follow a trail in winter is that we got to see new territory, I got to see real nice some territory on the east side of the Owl one sunny day in the winter (far sunnier than coming in from the west and got to see the original summit (far more impressive with views ) along with the second summit (long before the current summit was "discovered"). Same with Isolation. This was pre GPS so these events served to hone our map and compass skills. My observation these days in witner is that most winter hikers working on the lists regard having to break trail as a major inconvenience especially when they either do not own or elected not to carry snowshoes.
The nice thing when unburdened with the need or ability to follow a trail in winter is that we got to see new territory, I got to see real nice some territory on the east side of the Owl one sunny day in the winter (far sunnier than coming in from the west and got to see the original summit (far more impressive with views ) along with the second summit (long before the current summit was "discovered"). Same with Isolation. This was pre GPS so these events served to hone our map and compass skills. My observation these days in witner is that most winter hikers working on the lists regard having to break trail as a major inconvenience especially when they either do not own or elected not to carry snowshoes.
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Brambor
Well-known member
I find that whatever the CURRENT situation is or whatever the perception of the situation is one can not yell at the cloud but instead just keep doing what makes us happy. I am happy outdoors regardless of the crowds. In my perception of reality I find that (most of the time) the crowds thin out or completely disappear the farther I get from the parking lots. The New England States offer so much outdoor space to explore! Live happy.
Andrew
Active member
Few more thoughts,
Water filtration. I thought when First Need came out with the affordable filter (the one with the blue plastic filtering cartridge) it was a game changer. The next step that came along with straws and bottles with filtering is just amazingly convenient. Myself I like to use the type you squeeze the water through the element, as the straw seems a recipe for headaches? No need to innovate further- you're there, and please don't require a QR code and internet activation for it to function.
Titanium cookware. Have no fear to carry a big pot. I was never a fan of proprietary ultralight cooking systems, although I realize their place as the most appropriate tool for many situations, but not mine. Again I think we are there. Maybe little convenience innovations like a dual purpose pot holder/lid-lifter that disappears into the lid and pot would be welcome.
This one came and did not stick; wool blends in softshell garments. I was a huge fan when Ibex first came on the scene even though they were never very affordable. Luckily I bought 2 of their first parkas and we still use them regularly, as well as 2 pairs of gloves. I have huge regrets of not buying a pair of their 1st ski pants, as I bought a pair for my wife as a gift and was waiting to see a better price for a pair for myself. Never happened and they are now long out of production and mostly unavailable. I really notice the difference in thermal quality between my nylon and wool blend softshells.
Older technology but waxless XC ski bases have really advanced and really make snow travel phenomenally convenient. I would agree that wax is best for many experiences, but for overall convenience and travel the waxless touring ski is amazing. Although my wife would not have agreed with me this past weekend in the tacky new snow (couldn't find the maxiglide). There we go- a place to improve, the waxless base that never sticks.
In my opinion, sometimes the quest for innovation can ruin a great outdoor product. How many times I have regretted not buying a second or lifetime supply of some awesome new product, because the next model year they ruined it. Many times these innovations are just to market more of the same, and not an overall improvement.
Water filtration. I thought when First Need came out with the affordable filter (the one with the blue plastic filtering cartridge) it was a game changer. The next step that came along with straws and bottles with filtering is just amazingly convenient. Myself I like to use the type you squeeze the water through the element, as the straw seems a recipe for headaches? No need to innovate further- you're there, and please don't require a QR code and internet activation for it to function.
Titanium cookware. Have no fear to carry a big pot. I was never a fan of proprietary ultralight cooking systems, although I realize their place as the most appropriate tool for many situations, but not mine. Again I think we are there. Maybe little convenience innovations like a dual purpose pot holder/lid-lifter that disappears into the lid and pot would be welcome.
This one came and did not stick; wool blends in softshell garments. I was a huge fan when Ibex first came on the scene even though they were never very affordable. Luckily I bought 2 of their first parkas and we still use them regularly, as well as 2 pairs of gloves. I have huge regrets of not buying a pair of their 1st ski pants, as I bought a pair for my wife as a gift and was waiting to see a better price for a pair for myself. Never happened and they are now long out of production and mostly unavailable. I really notice the difference in thermal quality between my nylon and wool blend softshells.
Older technology but waxless XC ski bases have really advanced and really make snow travel phenomenally convenient. I would agree that wax is best for many experiences, but for overall convenience and travel the waxless touring ski is amazing. Although my wife would not have agreed with me this past weekend in the tacky new snow (couldn't find the maxiglide). There we go- a place to improve, the waxless base that never sticks.
In my opinion, sometimes the quest for innovation can ruin a great outdoor product. How many times I have regretted not buying a second or lifetime supply of some awesome new product, because the next model year they ruined it. Many times these innovations are just to market more of the same, and not an overall improvement.
