What sleeping Bag do you prefer?

[Boreal]

Much of the Down used in today's market is a by-product of food production, obtained from slaughtered birds. It is well documented the horrific conditions animals raised for slaughter spend their lives in. Even worse is the practice of "live-plucking." I can avoid the graphic decription of this as I'm sure everyone can imagine it.

I was under the impression that only low quality (550fill or less) down was produced as a by product of the poultry industry, and that the down found in high end sleeping bags was produced by more mature birds. Additionally, while its true that this down is hand collected, this is done while the bird is in the process of molting and their feathers are basically falling right off.

I also was concerned about this. From the reasearch I did it seems that most high-end down is produced by smaller operations that sell to a specialized market and that for the most part the birds are well cared for.

There's also the point that down is a renewable, biodegradable resource while sythetics are a product of the oil industry.

 

[buddy]

Multi night moisture build up

For three season or one or two night winter trips down bags probably out perform synthetic bags most of time , assuming you don't have any mishap that wets your bag. For extended winter trips synthetic bags perform better than down because moisture from your body increases with each successive night. Unless you are willing to sleep with a vapor barrior liner ( feels like sleeping in a luke warm steam bath ) and not burrow your head inside the bag ( difficult not to do when it gets below zero ) the down bags performance will start to degrade significantly on night three and get continually worse each successive night. I personally tend to backpack into a base camp and day hike from there so the additional weight of moderately priced synthetic bags is not as much of an issue. If I was multi day backpacking with full packs I might feel differently. There's my two tree cents worth. Buddy

 

[DougPaul]

For extended winter trips synthetic bags perform better than down because moisture from your body increases with each successive night. Unless you are willing to sleep with a vapor barrior liner ( feels like sleeping in a luke warm steam bath ) and not burrow your head inside the bag ( difficult not to do when it gets below zero ) the down bags performance will start to degrade significantly on night three and get continually worse each successive night.

Part of basic winter technique is keeping one's sleeping bag as dry as possible. Breathing inside any bag is a _very_ big no-no. Perhaps warmer in the short term, but much colder in the long term--it unnecessarily deposits a tremendous amount of moisture in the bag. (Wear a face mask inside the bag if you wish.) One should also air and sun the bag whenever possible to dry it. Using a vapor barrier liner will not only keep moisture out of the bag, it will actively dry the bag with your body heat.

Many users of VBLs have suggested that they prefer to use them only below about 0F. This is a nice match to the moisture-in-the-bag problem because the colder it is, the more moisture gets deposited in one's bag.

Synthetic sleeping bags also collect moisture when you are in them, they are simply less affected than down bags. I have read of synthetic bags turning into blocks of ice on an extended trip...

Doug

 

[Lawn Sale]

VB liners

Having never used one, I have to ask.

Don't you get soaked using a VB, even when it's well below zero?

I thought about picking up a nylon or silk liner so I can remove it to let it dry during the day and also to keep some of the nastiness out of the bag. .

 

[buddy]

VLB 's wet?

In response to Lawn Sales post, yes you do get at least damp and like I said it's like sleeping in a luke warm steam bath. I've used them a couple of times and have found the level of discomfort to be enough to discourage me from using them again. I now use a synthetic bag and agree completely with what DougPaul had to say. I agree that you should keep your head outside the bag, but it's hard to resist when it gets cold( below zero). I often go to sleep with my head outside and wake up with it inside. I've also used a light weight polar fleece blanket over my bag, and have found that alot of the condensation ends up on it and it's easy to dry or shake off. It's true that the blanket will compress the loft of the bag a little, but with synthetic fill I do not find it to be much of a problem and the benefit of having the moisture condense on the blanket rather than my bag makes it worth while for me. In my younger days, before kids, when I did extended winter trips ( 6 or 7 nights ) bag moisture control was much more critical, during shorter trips ( 2 or 3 nights) and staying away from supercold conditions ( lower than 10 below ) you can get away with not being AS careful. Also, unless the nylon or silk liner is also a vapor barrier it won't do much to keep your bag dry because the moisture vapor condenses where the dew point temperature is in your bag, which is near the outer areas of your fill. Another thing to consider is what your sleepig on. A good insulating pad under you is as important as the bag over you. I use two ridge rest pads under me and have no snow melt under my pads, a good indicator of pad performance. Some will find that overkill, but I'm a glutton for comfort. Buddy

 

[DougPaul]

Don't you get soaked using a VB, even when it's well below zero?

Not if you use it properly--the key is no insulation between you and the VBL--the VBL needs to be at body temp to prevent condensation. (Wear only your lightweight inner layer. The more insulation inside the VBL, the wetter it will get.)

This question has also been answered in more detail in a previous thread:
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5700&highlight=vapor+barrier
(or search on "using vapor barriers").

Also try searching on "vapor barrier". It will bring up numerous threads on the topic, including the above.

Dave.m also has a nice writeup on his experiences using vapor barriers: http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/vb.txt

His website is also worth a read (particularly if you are interested in backcountry and/or tele skiing): http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/dirtbag.html

Doug

 

[Lawn Sale]

Thanks!

Thanks for the info, it is much appreciated. I'll check out the links.

 

[sweeper]

How 'bout FREE ones!

I found two (2) brand new Kelty 15 degree Serranos at the dump, w/stuff stacks and storage bags. They look like they've never been used. Washed them and they are ready to go.

 

[Lawn Sale]

I have about 12 sleeping bags (from -20° to 40+°F), and have only bought one of them (on sale, about 1/2 price), the rest I scavenged from local dumps (I have a friend who works at one that keeps an eye out for me ).

So yes, free is good. Soap works well, patches are easy to apply, and most of the time a zipper can be fixed easily with a little patience. You'll be amazed at what people will throw away, "horrified" is a better term...too much disposable income I think.

 

[KevCon223]

I use both depending on the season and what the weather will be like for that trip. I lean a little more toward My down bag (EMS Mountain Light Zero Degree).

 

[sweeper]

You'll be amazed at what people will throw away, "horrified" is a better term...too much disposable income I think.

Just pick up a "820 and an 800" Trek Mtn bikes Damn near brand new out of the dump. (Nibs stiil on tires) Between the two I had to replace A front brake cable.