Where do Wind Farms belong?

[Mike P.]

Not sure the linked the URL I copied from Forestgnome's post properly but here it is from the Union Leader on 2/10.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.a...9-5a375c2d59d2

Apparently they don't belong near the AT (I agree, not near, but maybe within long distance sight) & not off Nantucket. (Not so sure but hooking into the grid seems hard in both cases) I shouldn't be complaining, I own stock in a wind co.

Why do they always seem to want to build these way off the grid on quiet wooded hillsides so you need miles of new forest roads or in the ocean where you need undersea cable?

Dixville Notch? Well, the locals might like it, they might think they would be self-sufficient - Do they know they will likely share the juice & won't be in some isolationist commune? Maybe that's a good location for shipping the power to the new $$$$$ development to be built around the Mt. Washington Hotel?

Why can't they be built on the grid. My guess is that you wouldn't need a 410 foot tower if you affixed these to buildings in Boston, Worcester, (there is one in/near Worcester, MA) Manchester, Hartford, NYC, etc. Airport approaches aside but it really hasn't been an issue for pilots, so some other buildings become artificially as tall as the Pru, Cityplace, the Mass Mutual building in Springfield, etc.

If they build them near cities, you don't need new roads (& additional lumbering or wait, that's an added bonus like the logging in CT everytime they add a new development CT logging at work- not everyone is apparently against Sprawl....) How about near the Malls, Anyone complaining about ruining the scenic view of the mall next to the highway?

Or, how about since the grid runs across hillsides already on tall towers, why not affix blades or a wind tower next to every high voltage, tower that criss-crosses the countryside already? It's part of the grid, you are already maintaining the brush under the towers & hooking up to the grid would be easy. There's aleady an ugly tower there too.

What about along the highway? If you are putting them up on 400 foot towers, won't it be windy that high any way? On hot summer days, thermals from the sun beating on the concrete (macadam) will generate it's own wind) Does anyone take a scenic ride to work on a highway & think how lucky they are for not having a windmill on scenic I-95 in Warwick, New Haven, I-84 in East Harford or I-91 in Enfield, Meriden or Enfield?

(maybe you don't want them near malls or on city buildings as it might increase base jumping & drunk teens trying to do something stupid. Will the blades still spin with a pair of sneakers tied around one blade? also another blank urban canvas to have spray painted....)

Put them in the 100 Mile Wilderness or only Environmential Terrorist will know they are there. Will you put police out there 24/7 to keep a rogue ATC, SC or AMC'er from sabatoging it? - How about putting one or two at every State Police Barrack or local municipal police station? Fixes the enforcement issue at no cost. Anyone concerned about pigeon's in cities getting confused by the turbines.

Wind is a great renewable power source. Do we need 30 turbines together or just 30 turbines linked to the grid. When I travel to PA, along I-81, there is a spot out in the distance with several wind turbines. I'm not there for a scenic respite but seeing them doesn't offend me either over the trees. Seeing them in Southern New England or alonge the GSP in NJ wouldn't bother me. (of for that matter 15 -18 miles off the coast so they would look like a small item from the beach, just like the container ships & barges)

Having them in the ADK's, Whites or Greens or even near Greylock or the Catskills might (would) bother me. With the economy in the Catskills, I'd think this would have come up. - I think it has, they are also dealing with farmland being leased for Nat Gas drilling but the crash in fossil fuel cost (so far) has put this on a back burner until prices go back up.

 

[andrewb]

I think about this a lot every time I am hiking. It would *really* stink to see these in the Whites, but consider how the summit of Washington has been utterly and completely destroyed. This was done mainly for (high impact) tourism and yes there is the observatory and its scientific mission, but the Obs would not be there if a road, RR, tip top house, and countless other monstrosities had not preceded it.

These wind towers would at least be serving (what I consider) a common good as opposed to pure commercialism. We need to end our addiction to non-renewable and downright ruinous ways of generating electricity now or else I fear we will condemn future generations to short, miserable lives. What's more important to you .. an "unspoiled" vista or your grand children's right to breathe clean air? Right now most of us take both of these things for granted. If we are not careful, both may be lost forever.

If it were easy to go green, we would already have done so. Change always requires compromise and there is no perfect solution. Just because a potential solution has a flaw, you can't scrap the whole idea. I mean, look at how we currently fuel industry. Are you telling me the current system is flawless?????

I will gladly sacrifice visual splendor if it will make a positive difference in the world's energy and climate crisis. If everyone says, not in my backyard (or extended playground 100 miles north of my backyard), then no change can ever happen. The good news is these are wind farms, not toxic waste dumps.

 

[AndyF]

Why in the mountains? More wind on high mountain ridges.
Why not in the cities? They are not quiet and would be disturbing to those that live near. Of course plenty of places in the city are not quiet anyways. Also they need open space upwind and downwind to operate well.
Solar on the other hand...

 

[Grumpy]

If you want to get a feel for what it is like in the midst of a large scale wind farm development, visit the Tug Hill area outside of Lowville, NY, just west of the Adirondack Region. Be sure to spend some time poking around – a half day or so – to get the full treatment.

The scale of these things is hard to imagine – even when you see humans and ordinary structures near them. Take note, also, of the new above ground transmission lines used to move electricity to market. Further, one of the impacts that is inevitable with wind farm development is the opening of lease access roads – like what is to be found in an oil or gas field development.

These are more than aesthetic impacts, in my opinion. They should be carefully considered as part of the project approval process – especially any projects on public land in undeveloped areas.

 

[Mike P.]

I agree Grumpy, the roads & the lines needed to connect the farms to the grid are narrow but over a long distance.

Statue of Liberty (from foreign oil) wind farm?

I believe you have the ability to turn them off, maintaince, if too windy, etc. Why not turn them off from 11:00 to 6:00? less electricity needed then.

(I'd be okay with building tops being solar farms also..... As solar cells becoem smaller, why not put them on the high tension towers, all along the clear cut known as the median of the highway, sides of bridges.....)

Places can be too windy, too icy, (Washington not likely a good location) I'd think even in the Dixville area, Rime would be an issue

 

[bikehikeskifish]

http://www.unionleader.com/columns.aspx/Opinion?channel=c385ca6f-fb9a-4c7b-9b39-899062752a63

John Harrigan's column from today's Union Leader talks about the wind farm along the Cohos trail. I'm sure this has been discussed in earlier threads.

Tim

 

[RollingRock]

I was driving into Boston yesterday and there was a wind turbine functioning quite well by the Bunker Hill Community College. It sure looks like they don't have to be on mountain ridges to work. If so, why NOT have these along the highways where there is land for them and they don't bother anyone? I'm all for that

 

[andrewb]

I agree. It seems best to put them as close to where (lots of) people are if possible. The new one in Newburyport is pretty cool. I saw it running on Friday and the thing is at ground level... no wind. Flags were barely moving on a flagpole 20 feet up. But that bad boy was really turning. Despite people's fears, it was silent as far as I could tell.

My first choice for location is not in the middle of nowhere because as others pointed out, roads, lines, etc will need to be built as well. I think it makes sense to start near population centers and work outwards from there.

 

[Grayjay]

Rumford WhiteCap is an interesting example. A local family wanted to sell or lease the summit for a wind farm, but the Mahoosuc Land Trust bought the other half of the summit, preventing them from doing that.
Does anybody know how many towers are on Reddington? I've never been there.

 

[rocket21]

One has to be very careful as to where they place a wind turbine, in regard to populated areas. It is not unheard of for blades to break off and come flying down to the ground (picture something massive falling 300 feet - look out!).

Wind power is definitely one of those NIMBY (not in my back yard) things for me. It's one thing to see a turbine on an already developed summit (I'm not sure how effective one would be on Mt. Washington due to the extreme weather up there), but it's another thing to see an otherwise beautiful landscape soiled with turbines sticking way above the canopy.

 

[Hillwalker]

White Mountains

We have had a wind power survey tower up on Sentinel Mountain in Warren/Wentworth for a little over a year now. Hopefully it will be considered a good site for a Wind Farm. It's located about a mile east of where the AT passes from Ore Hill shelter to Mount Rte 25C. Barely visible from any road or the AT at this point, and located only about 1000 feet from the triple power line swath that passes through here.

Located @ 264082 4867044 2130 feet

Local gossip is that it will be a private installation owned by the King Lumber Corp.

 

[Bob]

I want one in my back yard ! seriously I'd rather have it there than in some wilderness somewhere.

 

[Chip]

Change always requires compromise and there is no perfect solution. Just because a potential solution has a flaw, you can't scrap the whole idea... The good news is these are wind farms, not toxic waste dumps.

When traveling, especially flying, I occasionally see a nuclear cooling tower, usually out in the middle of nowhere. There is one, though (I think it's a cooling tower) right near the highway, ocean, bay and HIGH end housing on the way to the Jersey Shore.

We need something. It'll be a wind farm, array panels or cooling tower at some point, regardless. It'd be a hard choice. Many might prefer a wind farm to a cooling tower in their view.

 

[Fisher Cat]

For perspective, here's another place where tourism is BIG $, the Big Island, Hawai'i. Visit South point. One of the windiest places. Fall off and if you survive, or are not eaten, you can drift all the way to Antartica. There's nothing there but ocean. The wind is supposed to always be moving or at least have the possibility of such. However, whenever we visit, we go there, after all it is the most southern part of the US, the turbines have never been moving. And Mister Man, are they unsightly. Rusting sentinels. They do, however as the below article points out, have some benefits.

http://www.wind-watch.org/news/2007...arm-generates-power-but-bills-about-the-same/

What will it mean for NH, and/or the ADK's who knows. Its just a lot to think about. I'm not political, I'm not into the economics, or any of that jazz. I just like my mountains of NH.

 

[Vermonster]

Kibby

If you want to get a feel for what it is like in the midst of a large scale wind farm development, visit the Tug Hill area outside of Lowville, NY, just west of the Adirondack Region. Be sure to spend some time poking around – a half day or so – to get the full treatment.

The scale of these things is hard to imagine – even when you see humans and ordinary structures near them. Take note, also, of the new above ground transmission lines used to move electricity to market. Further, one of the impacts that is inevitable with wind farm development is the opening of lease access roads – like what is to be found in an oil or gas field development.

These are more than aesthetic impacts, in my opinion. They should be carefully considered as part of the project approval process – especially any projects on public land in undeveloped areas.

To give you an idea of the scale Grumpy is talking about, here's a shot of the Kibby project in western Maine. This is large scale industrial development, much of it at elevations that would generate a huge outcry had it been logged for pulp or saw logs. In the case of Kibby, this development extends for 13 miles.

 

[Grumpy]

These two photos from the Tug Hill (northern NY) wind farm provide a good sense of the scale of those generators. The photos also spook me, in a way.

G.

 

[Fisher Cat]

Yikes! Those look just like the ones on the Big Island. The ones in Hawai'i just have wider blades and more rust. Now imagine them sitting in an area that boast what is probably some of the cleanest air possible, crossing over 1000's of miles of open ocean.

I got the same feeling being around them. They are a bit creepy.

 

[The-Green-Man]

I apologize in advance for such a long post… Here are some of my thoughts:

There appear to be two main objections people have when they hear a wind farm may be placed CLOSE to their home: The visual impact and the noise the turbines/blades generate.

Visual: Apart from a huge tower dominating the landscape you also have to consider the effect of the spinning blades combined with sunlight: Some have compared this “strobe effect” to Chinese water torture. Up-close they are truly dominating, I agree, but when they are off in the distance I’d say they aren’t that bad.

Noise: This largely depends on the wind conditions and the design of the Nacel (the turbine and gearing). This probably can’t be helped except for keeping the wind farms away from homes.

No we have the impact of placing them in remote areas: There’s the environmental impact of running roads and power lines to the site, and the Visual and Audible effects on the animals living in the area. Some have raised concerns as to how wildlife may be affected by the “strobe effect” from the spinning blades and the noise made by the turbines. Imagine if the Moose just stopped “getting it on” in a certain area because of the noise? I’m not sure how likely this is but it’s worth a thought…

I know if I were a turbine manufacturer I would be thinking about the issues outlined above. After all, I’d want to make money so I’d do whatever I could to reduce the negative side-effects of my product! Right now companies are developing turbines that don’t use spinning blades but harness the energy in an entirely new way using a stationary tower with no external moving parts. There are also on-going efforts to reduce the noise these things produce. If these improvements are made I could see less resistance to placing wind farms close to communities. This would reduce the need build roads and transmission lines to remote sites and disturb natural areas.

No matter what, the adoption of wind-energy is going to take a certain amount of adjustment: After 100 years we’re now accustomed to overhead power/phone/cable lines everywhere even though they are hardly pleasing to the eye. We’re used to the noise and stench of cars, etc. It’s just going to take time to work the kinks out and once that happens I think (and hope) we’ll be in a better place...

 

[The-Green-Man]

These two photos from the Tug Hill (northern NY) wind farm provide a good sense of the scale of those generators. The photos also spook me, in a way.

G.

Very spooky... Those pictures are great examples of what I think developers/planner should avoid. Imagine that poping up next to your house?!

 

[pudgy_groundhog]

Grumpy, those are neat pictures (and you're right, a little eerie).

I grew up in Northwest Nebraska and always thought it was a perfect place for wind farms. I think more and more are popping up around there (I think one main issue is intersecting the paths of migrating birds, not sure how that is dealt with).

As for windmills in the mtns .... not sure how I feel about that one. In some ways it's no different to me than a big ski resort, some ostentatious home, or some tourism racket -- so why not. Although my knee jerk reaction is "don't ruin my view". I wouldn't mind having one within view of my house.