3-D Hiking Altas of the Presidentials

[Backcountry Exp]

3-D Hiking Atlas of the Presidentials

I am looking for a little anecdotal information from the users of this board about the feasibility of marketing 3-D maps of selected destinations in the White Mountains. Are there enough map-philes like me that would cough up a few bucks for some new and interesting perspectives on the mountains they love? Would anyone on here be interested in adding such a product(s) to his or her collection?

I know the Northeast is a saturated market when it comes to outdoors-related merchandise. Perhaps this is because it is one of the biggest outdoor markets? But I also know it to be one of the more highly educated markets. I think intelligent people make for discriminating consumers. I am aiming for that market.

I am building a series of maps that I have yet to see offered on the Whites or anywhere else for that matter. The following images show prototype slides of a thematic atlas I am creating for the Northern Presidential Range. This is just one of several perspectives I have created. These demo slides include elevation, natural landcover, slope in percent and a selected viewshed from an established camp in the Great Gulf.

Any comments or considerations would be greatly appreciated. This project is still in its infancy. I have several other candidate areas under development as well. Suggestions are welcomed.

Sincerely,
Rob O'Keefe

 

[Papa Bear]

My own take on this, is that as I get more experienced with maps and with a region, I rely less on the kind of sophisticated tools you are looking at. That is to say I now can look at a standard topo (often free from Topozone) and I can visualize the slopes, profiles, etc. So at least for myself I would not be an anxiously awaiting customer. You are also competing with mapping software from various vendors (Maptech, National Geographic, DeLorme) which can present such views.

What I would really be interested in is accurate and up-to-date maps of old logging roads, woods roads, seldom used trails, etc. The best I can get is from the DeLorme Atlases but those are often out of date.

Just my opinions. Good luck in whatever you come up with.

 

[Backcountry Exp]

Good points Papa Bear .. and well taken.

I obviously can't compete with the likes of the corporations you listed. But I can do something that they are not as inclined to do ... I can focus in on a niche market and custom design maps to target a very specific demographic. Topozone and the Nat Geo Seamless Series are, to large degree, one size fits all. Or, at the very least, designed to appeal to the broadest possible segment of the community.

I am looking at targeting the hiker/map aficionado who wants to learn more about their surroundings. I am also blending art with functionality. If you want a purely functional map of the Presidentials, buy the AMC guide and map. If you want a piece of art that also happens to be a detailed map, or series of detailed maps, buy mine.

 

[Tramper Al]

I'm sorry, I still don't actually understand what kind of product you are talking about.

Is it hard copy or software for desktop display and printing, like the jpegs you provided?
If hard copy, is it really 3D, like a raised topo map?
Or is it simulated 3D, presented in 2 dimensions, like a shaded topo map?

As far as I know, we already have existing products in some form in each of these categories.

 

[spider solo]

I think it's an interesting concept as long as you don't literally market them on these forums....

 

[Backcountry Exp]

Tramper ... at this point I am looking at a software and hard copy package. Ideally, I would like to package a high-resolution image of the mountain(s) or range with a companion CD-ROM that includes different layers of geographic information and 3-D panoramic flyovers from different perspectives.

Perhaps I should have spell-checked and used a different set of words other than "hiking map" in my title. LOL ... A layer of trails and roads will be an integral part of the final design, but by no means the only layer or the main purpose. I am looking at this as being an educational package, not just a fancy hiking map with a bunch of pretty colors.

If you already know of an individual or corporation that is marketing such products for the Whites or elsewhere, I would love to know about it ... please send me a link. I am well aware of the GIS capabilities now coming online through National Geographic's Topo series and other such products. But I doubt many people here have a functioning GIS in their home. And last I checked, Delorme was not offering hillshaded maps showing vegetation types and calculations of aspect and slope.

Spider ...

I hope my attempts at doing a little re-con on here are not taken as full-blown advertising. I do not even have fully functioning copy yet, let alone a salable commodity. I'm still a student, LOL. But I am looking to the future and looking at different possible areas to focus my energies on.

If I ever do have a product shake out of this .. I will NOT advertise on this board.

 

[Tramper Al]

Tramper ... at this point I am looking at a software and hard copy package. Ideally, I would like to package a high-resolution image of the mountain(s) or range with a companion CD-ROM that includes different layers of geographic information and 3-D panoramic flyovers from different perspectives.

If you already know of an individual or corporation that is marketing such products for the Whites or elsewhere, I would love to know about it ... please send me a link.

Hey,

I don't know anything about any of this, or even what GIS is, nor do I care really.

However, I have used the National Geographic add-on product Streets with 3D Views.

It is nothing magical, but it does generate a kind of cartoon 3D image video when you ask it to "fly-over" your traced path on the map. You can also pause and go up and down (like a balloon) for various views.

I have no doubt that something more sophisticated in terms of 3D views could be produced, I'm just not sure there is much of a market for it, at least among hiker types.

Hope that helps a bit . . .

 

[Backcountry Exp]

Tramper,

I may be behind the curve on this technology stuff. And I may never develop a product for market. I am just riding the wave at this point and seeing where it takes me. At the very least I hope to produce some eye-catching and informative maps of an area(s) that have special significance to me.

But I think you are dead wrong about there not being a market for this stuff among the hiking crowd. I can't help but wonder why is it that you picked an avatar that depicts a shaded relief/elevation map of the northeastern states? Maps and hiking go hand in hand, my friend. I remember when one of the only options for hiking maps was those venerable old USGS 7.5 min quads ... Last time I checked the REI in Northridge there were a host of different companies with competing maps and map software products detailing nearly every National Park and Forest in the country.

I have heard your sentiment echoed before on other boards where similar queries to mine were posted. And I take what I read on here with a grain of salt. The opinions expressed on boards such as these are not necessarily representative of the vast majority of people who either:

a) Consider themselves interested in hiking

Or

B) Buy the majority of the recreational gear sold in this county

Face it; marketing to the weekend warriors is where the money is.

 

[Tramper Al]

Tramper,

But I think you are dead wrong about there not being a market for this stuff among the hiking crowd. I can't help but wonder why is it that you picked an avatar that depicts a shaded relief/elevation map of the northeastern states?

Yes, I'm happy to be wrong. I know nothing about marketing, or whether one would have to sell a few hundred or many thousands of copies to break even. And I do love a good map!

 

[Backcountry Exp]

Yes, I'm happy to be wrong, I know nothing about marketing, and I do love a good map!

I'm wrong alot too ... just ask my wife !

And yes, I do love a good map too.

 

[hikingfish]

Features I would expect such a product to have...

Hi!
A few points I'd like to share. I'd personally love to be able to see 3-D views of trails in the Whites overlaid on 3D terrain. This is basically the only reason why I bought the Rainier DVD that shows you all the routes up the mountain. I like the idea of seeing, in relation to the mountain and the mountain range, where I'll be, etc.

The maps would need to be fairly high resolution and more modelling than textures should be used to give an accurate representation of the mountain's relief. You should be able to freely move within the area as well to view any viewpoint or spots you're curious about. Another useful option that should be included would be to display only the mountain on which the trail is or to also display the rest of the Whites so you can see which other mountains you could see while travelling on a trail. You should be able to toggle the display the name (and GPS coordinates) of other peaks, other trails, camping grounds, etc.

I would personally only be interested in the software aspect of such a product, because I don't have a printer and couldn't print any maps derived from the 3D images. Also, I'd coordinate what I see on my screen with a real topo map as there are no replacement for a real topo map when you're out there.

Now for the bad news hehe. Being from Quebec, I'd be willing to spend 50$ CDN (excluding taxes) on such a product if it had the features described above. Keep in mind that most people would already have a invested in a GPS, mapping software and guide books. So the CD-ROM would be only extra gravy.

You should probably consider talking to the good people that do the White Mountains guides, as it would be a great companion to the guide books (incl. as a CD-ROM) for us more visual oriented people.

Keep in mind two things though: If you develop the above in a sane, maintainable way, it'd be easy to port this over for use with any other mountain range (adk, catskill, rockies, etc, etc) with little effort.

Hope this doesn't discourage you, but rather sheds some light on what a potential user would expect to see in such a software. You might want to check out a previous thread I had started about a similar topic:
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5601

Thanks and let me know if there's anything else you'd like to know

Fish

 

[spencer]

Rob,

I love maps. I think it's a good idea. I think it's such a good idea in fact, that I've already been running my own GIS at home for a couple of years

I'm sure I'm one of the few with a home GIS. I know where you are coming from. We see all this consumer mapping stuff making a ton of money and we know how much cooler we can do it.

I think it would be really hard to compete with the DeLormes and National Geographics b/c not only do they have GIS and cartographic techs, they have graphic designers and marketing people driving their success. If there were a lucrative market for these products I have to think they would have done it already. We aren't talking about cutting edge GIS.

That being said, if you could create some really slick maps, I suspect there is indeed a small market that would be interested. My hunch is that they would be the kind of product that would sell as a hard copy for the map afficionados rec room wall, not as a useful software tool. Frankly, anything you can show in 3d can already be seen in a topo map by the trained eye. That's the beauty of the shading on topo maps (check out the MATC AT maps for a particularly good example).

Run with it, but I wouldn't quit your day job...

Good luck

spencer

 

[RoySwkr]

I know the Northeast is a saturated market when it comes to outdoors-related merchandise. Perhaps this is because it is one of the biggest outdoor markets?

I knew a fellow who was going to write sectional guidebooks to the White Mountains, and chose the Moosilauke/Kinsman/Pemi area for his first. I told him that was a silly idea and he should instead do the North Country which then and now had both the skimpiest and least correct guidebooks. He said that even if he sold a copy to everyone who hiked in the North Country he would never make ends meet while he could get by with a tiny fraction of those who hiked Lafayette. (He never did a second volume, wonder what an autographed copy of "White Mountains West" is worth?)

That's the beauty of the shading on topo maps (check out the MATC AT maps for a particularly good example).

I have a copy of the first MATC shaded maps and they are worse than useless, they hid all the contour detail. Presumably they use less shading now? An experienced map reader doesn't need shading anyway.