Altimeter

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askus3

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I just returned my Timex altimeter watch to Campmor and so am in the market, again, for an accurate altimeter watch. There are very few on-line reviews on these types of watches unfortunately, so I'm turning to you for some advice. I know that GPS are more accurate but if I go for an altimeter what watch is best and why would you recommend it?
 
Thanks Chip. I searched altimeter but did not get a hit on this thread in the first page. Got alot of threads (mostly trip reports) that had altimeter in it. So thanks for the quick link. This thread you linked me to has some good info.
 
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Actually, in general, assuming you calibrate a good altimeter/barometer daily from a known reference (such as a contour line on a topo), my experience is that they're a good bit more accurate than a GPS.

As it happens, I'm currently testing several "ABC" (altimeter/barometer/compass) watches: a Suunto Core (brand new; the earlier production units had problems, but they appear to have been resolved); a Highgear Altis; and a Casio PAW-1300. I have been evaluating them alongside an old-ish Highgear Altitech (not Altitech 2) that has proven to be very accurate over the years although the compass recently quit working for some undetermined reason - I like my compasses to have a baseplate and I have not missed the digital compass at all, but YMMV).

From the point of view of baro-altimeters, I think the Altis leads in both accuracy and utility. The UI could use a little polishing but it's very flexible/configurable, has all the right data or perhaps more even than you want, and at current pricing (check C@mpmore) is an outright steal. I wish it had a better strap - that's about it.

The Core has a great UI and the firmware was programmed by someone who both understood ease of use and the English language. I absolutely love the graphic 24 hour baro display. I absolutely hate the absence of a similar display for the altimeter! It's a big watch and a good bit more expensive than either the Casio below or the Altis, especially if you want the ability to mount normal straps rather than various rubber doohickies. Accuracy is very, very good.

The Casio is actually the best watch but the worst ABC tool. The compass came out of the box off by about 45 degrees, and calibration is a manual exercise (not simply getting into calibration mode and rotating the watch - you have to set it with a map and your trusty eyeball). The barometer and altimeter require calibration much more often and its readings are much less consistent. The PAW 1300 has both solar recharge and "atomic" time sync, although radio reception is much weaker and less reliable) than the only other atomic watch I can compare it to (a Citizen).

The Highgear and Suunto don't self-sync but seem to be accurate enough (more than) for wilderness use. Solar recharge is nice, but the other two take 2032 LI button cells which are cheap, light, and have near-eternal shelf life. I typically forget where I've put the spares before they expire!

The thermometers on these suffer a good bit from being attached to your body, so be realistic about that.

From almost a decade of experience, I'd strongly recommend almost anything made by Highgear. The products are not the most stylish, but they are very accurate and dependable. I can also tell you that their customer service is not exceeded by anyone - they will go more than the extra mile for you if you need help or service. If you want a watch, I'd look at the Altis on C@mpmor's website. If you want something to clip onto your pack, consider the Altitech 2.

Edit to add: I used to have a Suunto Vector. It overlapped the Core and there's a reason I don't own it any more. The Core was much easier to use and both much more consistent and more accurate as an altimeter.

My $0.02...
 
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I've got both a Highgear Altitech clip-on altimeter and a Suunto Vector ABC watch and concur with the reviews above. Both are quite adequate for backcountry work, as long as you calibrate them from known altitudes regularly. (On a multi-day trip, I usually re-set mine each morning before hitting the trail.)

My one peeve about the Suunto -- which is echoed by many on the climbing forums -- is its piss-poor alarm volume. Don't count on it raising you from a deep slumber with its anemic SPL.

I wonder how many alpine starts have been thwarted due to relying on Suunto watch alarms, and why, after at least several years of complaints, Suunto doesn't appear to have done anything about it. :confused:
 
Actually, in general, assuming you calibrate a good altimeter/barometer daily from a known reference (such as a contour line on a topo), my experience is that they're a good bit more accurate than a GPS.
Thrommen mechanical altimeters have a rated accuracy of 10 meters. (Thrommens were the top of the line mechanical altimeters designed for mountaineering.)

The barometric altimeter in my 60CSx is rated accuracy:+-10 feet ("subject to proper calibration") and resolution: 1 ft. When I reach a summit, the indicated altitude is generally within 10 ft of the official altitude (5+ hours of autocalibration on the drive to the trail head and the hike to the summit).


The above are consumer grade instruments. Survey grade GPSes can give altitude accuracies of a few cm or better. I don't know what accuracy to expect from a survey-grade barometric altimeter, but I doubt that it is better than a survey grade GPS.

Doug
 
Thrommen mechanical altimeters have a rated accuracy of 10 meters. (Thrommens were the top of the line mechanical altimeters designed for mountaineering.)

The barometric altimeter in my 60CSx is rated accuracy:+-10 feet ("subject to proper calibration") and resolution: 1 ft. When I reach a summit, the indicated altitude is generally within 10 ft of the official altitude (5+ hours of autocalibration on the drive to the trail head and the hike to the summit).


The above are consumer grade instruments. Survey grade GPSes can give altitude accuracies of a few cm or better. I don't know what accuracy to expect from a survey-grade barometric altimeter, but I doubt that it is better than a survey grade GPS.

Doug

You're totally right. I may have misunderstood the OP - I thought the reference was to using a GPS without a barometric altimeter to determine altitude.

You are totally correct about the consumer-grade nature of these watches. Still, they're surprisingly accurate for navigation purposes even if not survey-grade.
 
My EBay Highgear Altiforce is still going strong, and I really like it.

THIS is very similar to mine, just doesn't have the compass. Too bad the color is a little garish.
THIS has the compass.
 
My daughter sometimes works with a GPS which is accurate to within a half inch. (It is transportable, but not portable). When she comes home this weekend, I'll ask her how accurate it's up-down-ed-ness is.
I found a reference for a survey-grade GPS claiming 2 cm vertical accuracy (autonomous) and 1 cm using differential techniques.

Agreed, not a device that the average hiker will want to carry...

Doug
 
You're totally right. I may have misunderstood the OP - I thought the reference was to using a GPS without a barometric altimeter to determine altitude.
Unfortunately, altitude from a consumer GPS can mean either altitude from the GPS itself or altitude from an internal barometer which may or may not be calibrated from the GPS.

Garmin doesn't seem to give a vertical accuracy figure for the 60Cx (60CSx minus the barometric sensor and electronic compass). The rule of thumb is that the vertical error of the GPS altitude is about twice the horizontal error in ideal signal receiving conditions. The accuracy also depends on the satellite constellation (positions of the visible satellites) and time of day (night is better than day). In less than ideal conditions, both errors can be much larger.

Hikers tend to use single (instantaneous) measurements, but the error can be reduced by using time averaging of the location--the longer the better. As I understand it, the survey-grade accuracy figures generally include some amount of averaging. There are systems for high-accuracy tracking (Real-Time Kinetic = RTK) of moving objects (eg race cars or farm machinery) that achieve instantaneous accuracies ~10 cm, IIRC.

(Automatic calibration of a barometric altimeter by a GPS effectively uses a long-term average of the GPS altitude to calibrate the barometric altimeter.)

You are totally correct about the consumer-grade nature of these watches. Still, they're surprisingly accurate for navigation purposes even if not survey-grade.
Even relatively inaccurate altitude measurements, such as 30 meter accuracy, can be useful to a hiker or mountaineer. Whatever instrument one uses, one should be aware of its current expected accuracy and take it into account when using the altitude number.

And, of course, the barometric altimeter does double duty predicting the weather while you sleep...

Doug
 
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When I was thinking about buying an altimeter and looked at the prices of the better ones I was torm between it and a GPS since I didn't own a GPS.

I bought a basic Garmin GPS around $100 with sales tax.

Garmin doesn't seem to give a vertical accuracy figure for the 60Cx (60CSx minus the barometric sensor and electronic compass). The rule of thumb is that the vertical error of the GPS altitude is about twice the horizontal error

That seems about right so far as I've used it and I was quite surprised on my first climb with it. As I kept moving and climbing it wasn't such a big deal especially after the newness wore off and I started checking every half hour or so in instead every 2-3 min. On top of Street and on the final approach it was dead on.

Pete this is for you...:D...when I'm climbing a mountain I like to know how high I am. :p
 
Thommen mechanical altimeters have a rated accuracy of 10 meters. ... The barometric altimeter in my 60CSx is rated accuracy:+-10 feet ("subject to proper calibration") and resolution: 1 ft. When I reach a summit, the indicated altitude is generally within 10 ft of the official altitude
Doug

I stopped carrying my Thommen when I found that the 60CSx altitude readings were consistenty as good or better than the Thommen - without having to periodically reset to a know elevation. Of course, with the Thommen you've got no battery worries, so it was/is great for longer trips.
 
I stopped carrying my Thommen when I found that the 60CSx altitude readings were consistenty as good or better than the Thommen - without having to periodically reset to a know elevation. Of course, with the Thommen you've got no battery worries, so it was/is great for longer trips.
I don't carry mine these days either. But it still works as well as ever...

Doug
 
I haven't carried my Peet altimeter for years. +/- 20' accuracy. I went back and forth between the Peet and Thommen before going for this one. I liked the revolutions counter and less cluttered dial than the much better known Thommen.
Very accurate and no batteries to fail as mentioned. The 60CSx has relegated my analog altimeter to the dresser drawer.

http://www.terratech.net/product.asp?specific=jserjol8
 
I have a Casio Pro Trek with a solar cell. The big advantage of the solar cell is not the cost of replacement batteries which weren't that bad for my previous Pathfinder. The big advantage is in not having to open the watch. Every manufacturer tells you you should replace the seals every time, but try and find them. Eventually after changing the batteries of my Pathfinder a couple of times moisture started getting in mostly from sweaty arms and it eventually quit working. My Pro Trek has worked for several years without a problem and the battery gage still reads "high".

The compass works well, but forget the thermometer. To give me a rough idea I knock off about 20* and it's in the ballpark. I carry a small thermometer which is much more accurate.

I haven't seen mentioned so far one feature of my GPS Magellan Triton 400. It will also give me the altitude by reading off the topo map. Between my watch, the GPS altitude and the GPS topo reading I have a pretty good idea of the altitude.
 
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