Trainwreck
New member
Interesting ... and frightening.
http://www.summitpost.org/article/500874/To-attention-of-all-the-parents-.html
http://www.summitpost.org/article/500874/To-attention-of-all-the-parents-.html
And we are worried about taking kids into Tucks!!!
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cbcbd
Well-known member
So the boy's mother let this guy take her kid? Hmm... fishy. Seems like there is a big part of this story that is missing. All we know is that an unrelated adult forced a kid to altitude too fast for his own gains.
TrishandAlex
New member
I would like to see an article on this event that was not laden with opinionated words. Nice, clean journalism would be a breath of fresh air.
That's not to say I approve of a kid being forced to go up into high altitude. However, I doubt anyone is getting the full truth of the matter from that online piece.
I look at Jordan Romero, who is 12 and who has 5 of the "Seven Summits" under his belt. He just did Denali a couple of weekends ago, in full winter conditions. He trains daily, and sleeps in a high-altitude tent. His goal is to be the youngest to complete all Seven Summits, to do them all before he turns 17. He is an accomplished mountaineer. From his website (http://www.jordanromero.com/) and what I know of him, without ever having met him or his parents personally, I'd wager that these goals of his are HIS goals, and that his parents have learnt to lean back a bit and trust his judgment. I am sure they all know the full dangers he faces, and they prepare the best they can for these dangers.
I dunno -- I've learnt not to trust any article regarding child athletes/climbers that takes any "poor kid/wicked adult" tone.
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P.S. -- FWIW, there is no way I would allow Alex to do anything remotely similar to what Jordan Romero is doing, even if she begged and pleaded to try (I doubt she'd ever want to anyway). Neither would my husband. We are SO not comfortable with the oxygen situation. However, I am hesitant to judge any other parent for making decisions that are different than mine would be, as long as safety is taken under full consideration.
From the summit.org piece, it doesn't look like safety was taken into consideration all that much...but again, from the tone of the piece, it's obvious the whole story isn't being told so I don't trust the information.
That's not to say I approve of a kid being forced to go up into high altitude. However, I doubt anyone is getting the full truth of the matter from that online piece.
I look at Jordan Romero, who is 12 and who has 5 of the "Seven Summits" under his belt. He just did Denali a couple of weekends ago, in full winter conditions. He trains daily, and sleeps in a high-altitude tent. His goal is to be the youngest to complete all Seven Summits, to do them all before he turns 17. He is an accomplished mountaineer. From his website (http://www.jordanromero.com/) and what I know of him, without ever having met him or his parents personally, I'd wager that these goals of his are HIS goals, and that his parents have learnt to lean back a bit and trust his judgment. I am sure they all know the full dangers he faces, and they prepare the best they can for these dangers.
I dunno -- I've learnt not to trust any article regarding child athletes/climbers that takes any "poor kid/wicked adult" tone.
*********
P.S. -- FWIW, there is no way I would allow Alex to do anything remotely similar to what Jordan Romero is doing, even if she begged and pleaded to try (I doubt she'd ever want to anyway). Neither would my husband. We are SO not comfortable with the oxygen situation. However, I am hesitant to judge any other parent for making decisions that are different than mine would be, as long as safety is taken under full consideration.
From the summit.org piece, it doesn't look like safety was taken into consideration all that much...but again, from the tone of the piece, it's obvious the whole story isn't being told so I don't trust the information.
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woodsxc
New member
Trish, I'm in partial agreement with you on the matter. Unbiased (ok, less biased) journalism would be much appreciated in stories like this and in any story. However, that's highly unlikely given the sensational nature of the situation. The SP article is bound to be emotional and biased- Alexclimb was on the mountain with them.
As far as child athletes, I think that you can, without too much effort, find many examples of the child taking the lead and dedicating him/herself to whatever goal it is that they've set. You can also find just as many examples of parents living vicariously through their children and pushing until the kid breaks.
When I was in high school, we had a summer wrestling camp organized by our head coach and run by a guest coach from another school (as per state regulations). Kids from first grade through seniors in high school went to the camp. One of the younger kids, a second grader "Bryan"(not his real name), was an incredible wrestler. I looked him up online and his name popped up in brackets from tons of tournaments all over the Midwest. He won all of them. Bryan won several national tournaments for his age group. Bryan was tough, strong, a smart wrestler, and freakin' seven years old! His dad stayed in the gym to watch the practices and coach Bryan. One time, his dad wanted me (freshman, 90lbs) to wrestle live with Bryan (second grade, 60 odd lbs). I didn't do it, but he would have been tough to beat. The dad was nuts! He would yell at Bryan in the middle of practices. And not constructively, just chew the kid out. The dad was really intense and cared way more than Bryan. He had wrestled in college and was clearly using Bryan to get back into the sport.
The next year, they moved about forty minutes away so that Bryan could go to a wrestling academy full time and, when he went to high school, go to a school with one of the best wrestling programs in the state. Bryan was a great wrestler, a really great wrestler, but it was all his dad's show. Last I heard, Bryan had quit wrestling.
That's my only experience with a top level child athlete. It was a parent-driven, not parent-supported venture. Yeah, Bryan was a monster wrestler, but it was his dad's love of the sport, not his, that kept him in it at that level at that young age.
As far as Alexclimb's story goes, I don't know enough to make any judgment. It could be that the kid was like the kid Trish mentions, a dedicated little climber who unfortunately got altitude sickness. It could be that he was dragged up there because of someone else's ambitions. Most likely though is that it's a bit of both.
As far as child athletes, I think that you can, without too much effort, find many examples of the child taking the lead and dedicating him/herself to whatever goal it is that they've set. You can also find just as many examples of parents living vicariously through their children and pushing until the kid breaks.
When I was in high school, we had a summer wrestling camp organized by our head coach and run by a guest coach from another school (as per state regulations). Kids from first grade through seniors in high school went to the camp. One of the younger kids, a second grader "Bryan"(not his real name), was an incredible wrestler. I looked him up online and his name popped up in brackets from tons of tournaments all over the Midwest. He won all of them. Bryan won several national tournaments for his age group. Bryan was tough, strong, a smart wrestler, and freakin' seven years old! His dad stayed in the gym to watch the practices and coach Bryan. One time, his dad wanted me (freshman, 90lbs) to wrestle live with Bryan (second grade, 60 odd lbs). I didn't do it, but he would have been tough to beat. The dad was nuts! He would yell at Bryan in the middle of practices. And not constructively, just chew the kid out. The dad was really intense and cared way more than Bryan. He had wrestled in college and was clearly using Bryan to get back into the sport.
The next year, they moved about forty minutes away so that Bryan could go to a wrestling academy full time and, when he went to high school, go to a school with one of the best wrestling programs in the state. Bryan was a great wrestler, a really great wrestler, but it was all his dad's show. Last I heard, Bryan had quit wrestling.
That's my only experience with a top level child athlete. It was a parent-driven, not parent-supported venture. Yeah, Bryan was a monster wrestler, but it was his dad's love of the sport, not his, that kept him in it at that level at that young age.
As far as Alexclimb's story goes, I don't know enough to make any judgment. It could be that the kid was like the kid Trish mentions, a dedicated little climber who unfortunately got altitude sickness. It could be that he was dragged up there because of someone else's ambitions. Most likely though is that it's a bit of both.
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WinterWarlock
Active member
Don't believe everything you read
Check this out - according to this it was his godson, and the kid had been training for such a climb...the SummitPost article makes it seem like he whisked the kid away for his first climb ever.
Now, I can't be sure this is any more accurate, but the differences in the stories indicates the truth is likely somewhere in between.
Check this out - according to this it was his godson, and the kid had been training for such a climb...the SummitPost article makes it seem like he whisked the kid away for his first climb ever.
Now, I can't be sure this is any more accurate, but the differences in the stories indicates the truth is likely somewhere in between.
TrishandAlex
New member
I completely agree with this, and I've no doubt there are many unfortunate kids out there with pushy parents.
My point is, it's very difficult to tell what exactly is going on unless you know the kid and the family yourself. Reports like this are written in such a sensational fashion, there's no way I'd trust the "facts" offered up in such an account.
woodsxc
New member
Absolutely. I think that Alex's article was written as a cautionary tale to make people stop and think about the risks that they take with kids in the mountains. To get an accurate picture, you've got to get everybody's story and examine them all together. I can't imagine that they would take the kid to Elbrus without doing some training, but I don't know how much or how effective it was.
TrishandAlex
New member
True -- and you raise a good point about how Alexclimb was on the mountain with them. However, how much factual info he obtained vs. rumor is unclear. Also, the opening paragraph about how NO children "should" be in the mountains in extreme conditions, etc. rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe THIS child shouldn't have been up there, or maybe he should have trained in a different fashion, or maybe they all should have been much more in tune with his needs at the time, etc. But the opening blanket statement about what all children should/shouldn't experience, and the way the whole thing was written, turned me off to anything he had to say.
A piece of journalism, if that is what was intended, should be as close to fact and devoid of personal opinion/sensationalist slants as possible. At least, for me to trust the info contained within, anyway.
hikes-with-him
New member
Did you read the replies to this post? They are interesting...
I found that article a bit difficult to read due to the broken English...but, what I'm a bit confused about is...is the author of the SP article the guide that this Ian Mc Keever booked the expidition with? If so...what was the author doing agreeing to such a ridiculous climb attempt? Isn't there some legal issue with just taking somebody's word for it that the mother said "sure...my son's heartrate is usually 180". I have kids...and I have to sign all sorts of things for even the simpliest field trip. You'd think that there would have been better communication between the mother and the guides for such a dangerous attempt as this. Geesh...
Maybe this AlexClimb is trying to get eyes off of his part in this fiasco?
I found that article a bit difficult to read due to the broken English...but, what I'm a bit confused about is...is the author of the SP article the guide that this Ian Mc Keever booked the expidition with? If so...what was the author doing agreeing to such a ridiculous climb attempt? Isn't there some legal issue with just taking somebody's word for it that the mother said "sure...my son's heartrate is usually 180". I have kids...and I have to sign all sorts of things for even the simpliest field trip. You'd think that there would have been better communication between the mother and the guides for such a dangerous attempt as this. Geesh...
Maybe this AlexClimb is trying to get eyes off of his part in this fiasco?
HAMTERO
Active member
180-200 HR is not normal. 210 would be close to max for his age.
woodsxc
New member
I'm pretty sure that you can get over the "max". After a track race last year, my heart rate was 206-208 (I was 17). It was a really uncomfortable experience.
However, 180 is still an unnaturally high HR. 60 is a normal resting rate for a fit person, 70 for "average" people. When running workouts, we consider 120 to be "recovered" and ready for the next set. 180 is bad news.
DougPaul
Well-known member
The rules of thumb are not very accurate.
For instance, I broke 200 bpm multiple times while in my mid and upper 50s.
Doug
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