Bivy or tent in winter?

[oldfogie]

I'm planning on doing about 5 days in the daks soon, just moving from peak to peak as the spirit moves me. I'll sleep wherever I happen to be at nightfall. I need to pack light, so I'm wondering about others' experiences with this sort of trekking.

Specifically I'd like to know about shelters. I have a 3-season GoLite 2-person cave tent that I use in summer but it weighs 3 lb 8oz. I also have a Slumberjack poled bivy at 2 lb 1 oz. Other possibilities are to buy a bivy sack or carry a snowshovel (at 1 lb 14 oz) and dig/build a snow shelter. What would you do / have you done? Other ideas?

Thanks.

 

[Bolivia]

Dax trip

Sounds like you will/may be soloing this trip. Making a snow shelter can be time consuming (1-2 hrs) and sweaty, although a crude cave would be much quicker. You should keep this in mind if you don't have someone to help with the effort.

Enjoy the trip. Hope you let us know how it turned out when you get back.

 

[sierra]

camp

This is my opinion, others Im sure have theirs. I solo alot year round. I think 2 pieces of gear are essential to survival in the winter ( among others). A good tent and a good sleeping bag. If you rely on digging in, your expections imo, are to high, many factors could inhibit you from successfully completeing an adequete cave ie. weather, snowpack, energy (yours). I carry a lightweight 4 season tent, and a -30 bag, while they do add to the weight they are my sanctuary, with these 2 pieces of gear, Im ensured a good chance of both comfort and survival. Frankly your post leaves me to ponder your overall time in the field in the dead of winter, while the preceding statement is by no means a shot at you, it seems your underestimating the importants of essential gear and or your reliance on building a shelter. I have built snow caves, they are great, but require good snow conditions and TIME. Good luck and I wish you a safe trip.

 

[tonycc]

The key to winter camping is staying dry. You won't have much chance of drying out your gear if it does get wet.

Digging a snow shelter, as has already been mentioned, is a very wet activity. You will sweat heavily and you will also get wet from the snow. This is not a bad option for a base camp type outing, although I have given up on it myself.

You should also be concerned about trapping moisture in your sleeping bag when using a bivy sack. This is already a winter problem without a bivy sack in contact with your sleeping bag. I use a lightweight outerbag over my winter bag. This moves the dewpoint outside the winter bag and allows it to maintain its insulation over several nights. The outerbag is where the moisture condenses. Some people use an impermeable bag liner to keep their bag dry, I haven't tried that yet.

If you want to go real light a tarp would work for keeping the snow and frost off. I've tried it and it is quick and easy to set up. However, it is not very warm. A tent will provide a draft free environment and maintain an interior temperature somewhat warmer than the outside. It is also a good place to hang out in should weather keep you from moving.

I am a true believer in ultralight camping, however I also believe winter is not the time for it. Going solo in the winter can be dicey, trying to go too light could eliminate the needed margin of error to be sure you make it back out. Deoending on your route, a pulk may be a good option.

Tony

 

[Jasonst]

Yeah, a bivy doesn't seem like a great option to me either. A good snowstorm could completely bury everything! Like Sierra, I greatly value the sanctuary of my tent and bag!

 

[HAMTERO]

shelter/bivy option

I have an MSR TwinPeaks shelter that I use for winter camping. It weighs 1 lb 11 oz. I used it several times last year on overnights and a 3 nighter. No floor but enclosed all around. Works great for snow. I just got an Event bivy/overbag to keep my bag dryer but I havn't used it yet. There is a review of the TwinPeaks and a gear list for snowcave camping on Backpackinglight.com. 5 days is a long time to be out by yourself in the winter. What if you break your leg on day 2 and have to lie there for 3 days at least before someone starts looking? I like having a reliable partner myself. I wouldn't depend on making a snowcave without practicing first and even then conditions have to be right

 

[Panama Jack]

Snowcaves are for emergencies........

or if you are going to establish a basecamp with one. Digging 5 snowcaves in 5 days is not anything I would relish. I had to build a snowcave to certain specs for a survival course I once took. Nightmare! I was soaked through by the time it was done (3 1/2 hours) and never did get dried out adequately untill I was back at the trialhead the next afternoon. As others have mentioned, a good tent and a GREAT bag are essential for survival, it is not a place to save pounds in winter.

Best of luck and have a safe trip!

 

[David Metsky]

Just to clarify, you're doing a winter solo with no fixed itinerary? While I have no problems with solo hiking, or even winter solo hiking, this would be too much risk for me to feel comfortable with.

Given that, I think a tent makes absolute sense to increase your margin of safety.

-dave-

 

[MissionsMan]

I gotta agree with Panama Jack, a snow shelter is an emergency shelter usually. Lotsa, lotsa work (and sweat). While they are fun with friends, alone, they are a difficult proposition - especially after a day of winter hill climbing. I predominately solo and would rarely consider a snow shelter as my primary shelter - YMMV.

A solid tent and good quality sleeping bag (and significant enough for expected temps), for me, adequately put winter camping risk to acceptable levels. There are many other items that i put to use against getting wet, but your question was about shelter.

I prefer a tent with a floor and vestibule. I've used tarps before, many years ago, but i couldn't find a setup was really adequate for a heavy snowfall and big, cold winds - maybe my poor technique was at fault - I dunno - I was plagued with spindrift everytime. However, now i use a Integral Designs MK1XL and never have those problems. Bivy sacks are nice when climbing long alpine routes and sleeping on a ledge, but thats about the extent of their usefulness for me.

Be safe.

Mm

 

[oldfogie]

Well, sounds like a tent is the way to go. That I will do. I'll have a celphone with me to let family know where I am. I prefer solo. When I say "as the spirit moves me" I mean that I WILL have an itinerary, but as to how fast or slow I do it or where I spend the nights, that will be unknown until I'm there.

My clothing and bag (NorthFace Max Demon 800 Down) are far more than adequate. I was just wondering about comfort. I've slept at Times Square in an unexpected -25 night in a tent and did well. I've used a tent up to this point for wintering, but I've been disappointed with the amount of frozen condensation that collects on the inside. If I open up the doors for ventilation then I lose whatever warmth might be inside. That's why I posted here, wondering if there are better alternatives.

Thanks for the responses.

--Joe 3102W

 

[ChrisB]

OF,

Interesting situation WRT condensation in a tent in winter. But, I think you might still have the same problem with a bivvy. I know mine gets a bit icy inside after a cold night out, just like my tent.

A few weeks ago I used my summer tent (Tadpole 23) for a winter overnight and the netting roof really helped vent. It still was a bit icy in the AM, but not too bad.

I think the key is not to rely on the tent for warmth. That what your sleeping should be doing for you.

If it is not storming, try keeping the tent open to promote vapor transport out. In this regard, some of the summer lite-weight mostly-mesh tents with a loose fitting fly do a good job if you are below treeline.

Have a great winter walk-about.

cb

 

[Nessmuk]

Well, sounds like a tent is the way to go. That I will do. I'll have a celphone with me to let family know where I am. I prefer solo.

Everything already said is very true, regarding quinzees (snow shelters), tents and bivies. One of the biggest problems I have solo in the dark months is what do you do when it gets dark at 4:00 in the afternoon? Life in a bivy gives you little to do. Having only a bivy in bad weather with early dark would drive me nuts. At least in a tent or quinzee you can change your position and sit up to read and move round while the blizzard rages outside. Will you have a sled (pulk)? Unless you are doing mostly vertical work, a sled for your gear in winter will save a lot of effort.

Do not count on getting cell phone coverage in many areas in the backcountry. Your family should not necessarily consider lack of contact as a flag for an emergency situation. You wouldn't want your family to call out the rescue team if they don't hear from you as planned, only because the electronics failed you. But you must have a safety plan in place.

 

[sierra]

wet

I agree with a previous poster, I open front and back flaps at the top about 3'', enough for some cross ventelation, I would rather lose a little warmth then get heavy condensation. moisture or water is your enemy in the winter, if your bag is good youll be warm enough, dont forget to wear your heavy hat to bed. In the morning I brew up in my tent, for this, I do open my door flap alot more, it helps dry the tent before packing it up, and I love the warmth and its dang cozy to be still be half in your bag while making breakfast. But becarefull, cooking in your tent can be hazordous if your not carefull, by the way I use butane, white gas is more dangerous imo, if you use white gas as alot of people do in the winter, dont fill your stove in the tent and becarefull primeing it,this reminds me why I dont use white gas, I think its alot more volital then butane and I never have a problem with butane in cold temps.