Care and feeding of black toenails...

[TMax]

So, there's been LOTS of talk lately among the crew I've been hiking with about blackened toenails and the eventual loss of them . Just wondering if anyone has any good ideas about the management of these little piggys during the process ??? The nail on my big toe is black and separated from the toe on about 1/3 of it. When I hike downhill, It hurts and gets worse. I know, I know, so don't walk downhill; But what goes UP must come down! I don't think wrapping it would be a good idea, cuz that just makes for less room in the boot. (P.S. My boots are a great fit with many miles on them.) Since I'm headed for Rainier in just a little over a month, I'm looking to continue my training hikes but not create a bigger problem that I'll regret at 14,000'. Who has the million dollar cure??

 

[bobandgeri]

Geri has the same problem - the nail will eventually fall off and re-grow. Her cure is bright red toe nail polish, although Sherpa John requested she change to blue.

 

[DougPaul]

I've had black toenails without losing the nail. Takes a long time to grow out.

Maybe you need a different pair of boots. Socks (especially toe seams) and insoles can also be a factor.

If you are having problems with your current boots, they will probably be worse on Rainier. Or just don't hike downhill.

Doug

 

[jade]

A few days after wearing my hiking shoes (rather than my sneakers) on a 20 mile road walk, my big toe turned red and became my BIGGER red toe. I finally realized I had a huge blister under my toenail. It turned yukky and after a couple of weeks the toenail fell off. Because the skin underneath was tender, I put a bandaid over it. I suggest you walk softly and carry a big stick!! I think by the time you hit Rainier, it will be healed sufficiently so that it won't be a problem.

Best of luck on your climb......Jade

 

[Butch79]

I had one turn agate brown, despite a great-fitting pair of boots that never gave me so much as a blister in many years of hiking, after finishing the Northville-Placid Trail about twenty years ago. It dropped off after a month or two and didn't try growing back until several months after that. When it did, it came in sideways and doubly thick. It's still that way. I'd suggest that if yours does drop off, you might want to consult a podiatrist so you don't wind up with the mutant thingy that makes my grandkids go "eeuuw!"

Happy trails --
Uncle Butch

 

[linehant]

Ugh. Have had the black/lost toe-nail problem when ice climbing, but never hiking. For me it was mostly a front-pointing problem.

Have generally managed to avoid the problem by being diligent in keeping nails trimmed WAY back - so that they're not affected when kicking crampon points into the ice.

That is... the nail was getting trashed even though it didn't feel as though my toes were hitting the front of the boot when kicking into the ice.

Once the nail was blackened, it was history. Couldn't always get the "remnant" off. One time, had to keep taping the remains in place so that it wouldn't "hang" when putting socks on/off. Not fun.

 

[sp1936]

I've had several black toenails and lost all of them. Took a long time. I don't think there's much you can do but let Nature take its course. Taping the toe up tightly might help. Once the nail falls off, you will have no problem as it slowly grows back in.

Steve

 

[TCD]

I've had a couple black toenails, usually from plastic tele boots or too-tight rock shoes. The older Scarpa T1 hads the bellows flex too close to the tip of the toes, and that could really do a job.

For me, the best prevention is soft footwear. In summer, trail runners. Most "hiking boots" are constructed with too much volume, and even when laced tightly, they don't hold your foot back from running into the toe of the boot. In winter, I wear leather. If it's really cold, I use supergaiters, overboots, or heat packs in some combination, but I haven't worn my old plastics in years. And my newer T1s don't hurt my toes.

I don't think there's any fast cure for the toenail. If it's damaged back in the cuticle, it may fall off. If it's only partially damaged, it may stay on and grow out. Takes 6-8 months either way. Keep it clean and trimmed.

 

[jfb]

I had blackened nails on both big toes a few years ago. It was caused by wearing approach shoes (LaSportiva Boulders) for a long dayhike. Luckily, the nails didn't fall off but they did take several months to heal. Afterwards, I bought a larger pair of hiking shoes and paid much more attention to the fit so I could be sure my toes didn't touch inside the toebox when going downhill.

 

[giggy]

tmax - as you know - I got them as well. I think I initally got them on the pressie traverse (I was putting more weight on front toes due to blisters on my heal) and then aggravated them trail running this past weekend)

I have had nails fall off before - but never gave rats a** and just them them heal. the fact the I heading to rainier in 30 days has sent me to the doc 3 times in the last 2 months and little injuries that i never would have went for before. want to be 100% for rainier.

he said as long as there is no pain - let nature take its course and it will fall off - its basically part of the game. It happens when the training gets stepped up like we have been doing for the last 6 months.

My plastics are my best fitting boots and they are more coomfy to me than my leathers - so not worried there.

 

[Pucknuts61]

It's always nice to find out I'm not alone here. Mine was caused from front-pointing like Linehant and then it got worse during a long downhill descent on ice.
At about the 3 month mark, it started to lift as the new one grew in. I ended up going to Tucks to front point in order to kick it off
Now at the 6 month mark, it's still not fully grown in so I figure it will be the better part of a year before it's somewhat normal.
I'd consider using a molefoam for now or some sort of custom made cushion for the toe. I had gone so far as to consider crazy glue to keep it on until it was necessary to lose it. I didn't go that far, but I saw that Backpaker mag also recommends glue as a possible solution for very bad cuts. The only problem might be moisture.
Whatever you use be careful not to cut off circulation.
Good luck on both the toe and Rainier!
Bill

 

[CatskillsYeti]

black toenail on an easy hike

I took a first-timer colleague from work up Overlook Mt. in the Cats a couple of weeks ago. For those of you not familiar with this "trail," it is (except for the last third of a mile or so) a gravel road at moderate grade. I chose to wear a pair of Nike low-cut "hikers" that I had only worn previously on the flat, around town, etc. BIG mistake. On the way down I began to notice some pain in the second toe (the one next to the big one) of my left foot - which is not longer than the big toe. It felt like the socks (liner and wool) might be rucked, so I stopped a couple of times to try and fix it. No help. The pain went away when I switched to sneakers at the car, but I have had a black toenail now for nearly three weeks - from the descent on an EASY hike! I don't blame the shoes - I blame me for not having checked them out more thoroughly before I used them on a trail, easy or otherwise. I check with a podiatrist friend and he said the nail will most likely come off and as long as there is no pain there's nothing serious going on.

BTW - the podiatrist told me that people with second toes longer than their big toes actually have abnormally short big toes. Learn something new every day.

 

[Quack]

Lost all of the toenails on my right foot as a kid (bike accident, always wear shoes) Anyway, my Mother was very good at keeping them clean and covered for the next few weeks until the tender stuff under the nails toughened up. Then I just took it easy when barefoot until they grew back. You may want to think about getting that thing taken off before you go, so it doesn't fall off on the mountain. I remember the skin underneath being very sensitive for at least a week. That may be a bad condition at 14k.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

In the past four years, I've only had 10 toenails for about a month. I think that only my pinky-toes never lost a nail. I currently have 2 on their way off, and one tthat fell off seeral weeks ago.

Almost without ail, the thing that causes them to blacken, is not cutting them. I blame that on lack of flexability in my old age. When younger, I could bite them ti keep them short.

They never continue to hurt more than a few days.. IE, they hurt before they realy turn black. Sometimes, if they continue to hurt, trimming the nail as short as I can get it usually helps. Hold onto the tip of the nail with a finger and wiggle it. If that's hurting it, good chance trimming will help.

Hiking, sking, and cycling have all done it to me.

 

[Tuggy]

I think linehant has it right. The trick is prevention. Trim the nail way back while its healthy and try and avoid the problem.

 

[anita514]

I've had the black stinky toe nail problem for a while. I have a screwed up tendon in my foot, so it keeps my big toe stiff and basically sticking up. it's a real bitch when descending, but now that I wear hiking boots (garmont/scarpa), it doesn't bother me as much as it did in trail runners.

the last time it turned black was last summer. I went to my esthetician and she sold me this foot fungus liquid, and told me to clean out the gunk under the nail every chance I get. I did that almost daily until it fell off. since then I've kept it clean, and it has since grown back and actually looks normal for once.

 

[daxs]

Teri, I hike with "black' nails and usually do not have a problem. I just let them fall off. If the nail is giving me a problem, i have one of my co-workers take it off (being in the medical field has its advantages). Of course that involves numbing up the affected toe and using some nasty looking devices to cut and then yank it off. I think at one point last summer, I was missing 3-4 toenails. I did too many 20+ mile day hikes some of them in wet boots. Thats usually when I run into problems with getting tramatized nails - wet conditions.

 

[DougPaul]

The manicure experts say that toenails should be trimmed to be square and never too short. This is certainly mutually exclusive of what Pete Hickey et al. suggest. I am in a quandry. Are there any such experts out there who would care to elaborate on this?

I don't think I can claim to be an expert on toenails, or even play one on hiking BBSes, but here is my take on it:

The standard advice is aimed at preventing ingrown toenails. I cut my toenails fairly short and somewhat rounded. (The corners might be just a tad longer than the centers.) Then I take a nail file and round the corners and smooth the edges of the nail. Rounding the corners gets rid of the sharp point which can dig into the flesh of the toe or the adjacent toe. Smoothing the edge also removes sharpish spots and prevents the upper part of the nail edge from catching in my sock. And finally, the reason that I don't cut the nail as short as possible is that the edge of the nail will dig into the top of the toe if I cut it that short. (A couple of days of growth will make the nail long enough to cure this.)

Somewhere, I read that one shouldn't cut slight ramps at the sides of the nail to prevent if from becoming ingrown. Well, the ramps sure work for me (particularly on the big toe). And the above filing of the corner also violates this advice. But it too works for me.

So insert all the standard caveats, not a doctor, YMMV, etc. This works for me. At this point, I have 1 partly-healed still-attached black toenail. IMO, my biggest problem is the toe seam of the sock catching on the toenails. (Please Smartwool, can you make wool socks with smaller toe seams?)

Doug

 

[rtrimarc]

black toes

I get them all the time. Got a couple after the NP Trail thru-hike last year, and of course after marathons. Running/hiking does that. The advice you got here about keeping them short and wearing good fitting shoes is the best. But you can't really avoid them if that is how your feet respond to overuse, you must deal.

The good news is that the pain is very temporary. A black toenail shouldn't bother you after a week or two.