Courtesy to hunters

[Holdstrong]

Peakbagr thats what i have been trying to say all along but obviously my communication skills leave alot to be desired.

Read the post that is sandwiched directly in between yours and peakbagr's to understand that it is not just about wearing the color orange.... there are also several other posts that advise people to stay home or avoid certain areas during hunting season.

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Hunting is not allowed in Marcy Dam or near John's Brook where the hiker traffic is crowded. If it were, and you had to avoid the area due to hikers, then you would know exactly what it is I am talking about. But it isn't.

What I am talking about is land that is open to both activities.... I am not talking about land that has hunting restrictions, nor am I talking about private land that does not allow hiking but does allow hunting.... obviously if we are talking about "sharing" land we have to be talking about land that each group has access to. And during hunting season, by and large, it is the hikers that yield to the hunters on this land. That's the skinny of what I have been saying.

 

[Mountainhound]

that is not true like i have already said i avoid areas that have high hiker activity. why becuase i dont want to put anyone at risk.

 

[Mountainhound]

Lots of emotion here. This is another one of those topics that will always create a lively debate. I usually prefer to avoid conflicts such as this, but once in a while my "hot button" gets pushed. Personally, I avoid trips during hunting season, because there are too many ya-hoos who shoot at anything that moves, and I don't care to hear gunfire while I'm out enjoying nature. Maybe we just need a special heading for conversations about sports, dogs, snowmobiles, hunting, and cell phones!

this is the one your talking about right. i would like to see the eviidence that supports this theory. becuase hunting accidents are dont to almost nothing and the ones that do happen are usually other hunters that are all decked out in camo.

 

[Holdstrong]

this is the one your talking about right. i would like to see the eviidence that supports this theory. becuase hunting accidents are dont to almost nothing and the ones that do happen are usually other hunters that are all decked out in camo.

Every year the papers are jammed with stories of hunters accidentally shooting themselves, their hunting partners, dogs, other non-target animals, and yes... occasionally hikers or other people enjoying the woods. This is not to say that it is common... but it happens... and most of us would rather not take the chance. Again, I direct you to this very thread, where several times advice was given by experienced and respected hikers that it is best to avoid certain areas or to not hike at all during hunting season.

 

[Holdstrong]

that is not true like i have already said i avoid areas that have high hiker activity. why becuase i dont want to put anyone at risk.

You are right, and I didnt mean to suggest that hunters never bail on their plans to avoid hikers (I know it came off that way as I tried to make my point)... as I am sure this happens occasionally - especially when the hunters are conscientious ones, like you obviously are - but I maintain that by and large it is the hikers who are yielding here. I grew up in a small town just south of the Adirondacks... big hunting community, and I never, not once, heard of a hunting weekend being called off due to a hiker’s car at a trail head. That’s not to say it never happens, but the pendulum here is pretty clearly on one side.

We go out and purchase clothing and equipment that we ordinarily would not own just so that we can protect ourselves from you, we are consious of not spooking your game, we accept the interruptions of our peace and quiet by gun shots, we avoid certain areas and bail on trips if we see hunters, and some of us dont even bother to hike at all during this time.

Just look at this thread. The whole tone of this thread (until I stepped in to point it out/ruin it) was about bending over backwards for hunters.... not "spoiling" their hunt, avoiding their areas, giving them their "time", etc etc etc.... and this is great! I am happy the community is so courteous. But I don't see anything wrong in pointing this out and in calling BS on the kumbaya sentiment that "we are sharing the land equally". We are not sharing the land equally; by and large we are yielding to you.
(not that there is anything wrong with that )

 

[ripple]

We are not sharing the land equally; by and large we are yielding to you.
(not that there is anything wrong with that )

Then what is your problem? You just said "not that there is anything wrong w/ that". Seems like you are just trying to get people all torqued up.

 

[Waumbek]

Now if the state closed some trails to hunting only, we might be onto something.

Actually, I've always wondered if USFS tries to keep their roads in NH open to accomodate the beginning of rifle deer season here. With rifle deer season beginning Wednesday, Thursday a state holiday (Veteran's Day), this will be a blockbuster weekend.

 

[Warren]

I've found hunters to be an excellent resource in off trail conditions and routes (more so in the ADKs than say, the Catskills). Lots of local information learned over years, generally much more detailed and varied than you might get from a hiker.

Jay- I've seen Hunters on the Devils Path feeder trails, I imagine that it's not that uncommon, many of the feeder trails being old carriage roads.

Once again for the record, I generally stay out of hunting areas during season out of general courtesy and respect. So many places to go I just can't get myself worked up over a few weeks.

Also, I've met many more bone headed hikers than hunters.

 

[Rivet]

Then what is your problem? You just said not that there is anything wrong w/ that. Seems like you are just trying to get people all torqued up.

Considering Holdstrong started out with this statement...

"Am I the only one who (admittedly on principle alone) resents the notion that hikers should have to wear "bright" colors during hunting season or avoid, or tread lightly, in certain areas? "

with added emphasis on the word resents, I would say you are correct sir.

 

[mavs00]

Every year the papers are jammed with stories of hunters accidentally shooting themselves, their hunting partners, dogs, other non-target animals, and yes... occasionally hikers or other people enjoying the woods.........................

I'd dispute that statement. As part of my job, I investigate ALL traumatic deaths in an area that is one of the LARGEST HUNTING AREAS in NY (The Southern Tier). Mind you this data is for FATALITIES ONLY. But deaths by gunshot in (legal) hunting situations are fairly uncommon. In order of frequency, it goes like this.

1) Accidential Discharge (self-inflicted)
2) Intentional Discharge (missed target)

Firearm deaths are pretty rare (on the order of 2-3 a year in this area) Statistically, hunters shoot themselves far more often then they shoot others, and the other is almost always other hunters. Since 1992, I could find only 1 occasion in which a person participating in an recreational activity (like hiking) was killed by a hunter (there were others, but they were deemed intentional homicides ) and this is out of literally hundreds of thousands of "hunting hours". The overwhelming danger for any hiking related situation is the dreaded myocardial infarction (heart attack) on the part of the hunter.

Bare in mind, these stats are for western NY only, but I'd be willing to bet that similar stats and occurances could be found in the ADKs or Catskills, which both have less hunters then western NY.

P.S. I'm not weighing in on either side, I'm just pointing out that it may seem that the above statement is true (because ANY incident would generate HUGE media attention), but in reality, it's probably NOT MUCH OF AN ISSUE AT ALL. Seems the both activities can peacefully co-exist together just fine.

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

I really don't mind working my hikes around hunting season. Also, I do not believe that all hunters are dangerous - just the few who get all the publicity. When I have ventured out during that season (I don't keep track of the dates from year to year), I must say that I don't see or hear them once I've gotten a few miles away from the trailhead. Let hunters have their sport. Winter is coming, and I'll be back out there at the end of December.

 

[jade]

I'm thinking of designing a talking scope......it would say something like this "down, down, down (and when the hunter's big toe came into focus) "ok NOW, SHOOT!" Heck, I wouldn't even charge for it, I'd give it away to every hunter who purchased a hunting license. Nothing lethal here, just a few days off your feet to reflect on the pain and 'sport' of hunting.........

 

[Grumpy]

I’ll rephrase my earlier remarks, with commentary.

Taking care to not interfere with someone else’s legal and legitimate enjoyment of shared ground is not conceding anything to them. It is common courtesy and something of a neccesity if we are to maintain a civil society. Courtesy begets courtesy. Rudeness, resentment and animosity breeds rudeness, resentment and animosity in return. What all this adds up to is that ordinary courtesy serves our own best interests as well as those of others. It’s just plain smart living.

Wearing bright colors so you’re readily visible to hunters while traipsing through the woods, is no “concession” to hunters. It’s looking out for yourself, and that makes it just plain smart.

Avoiding situations or places when and where others (hunters, in this case) are doing something perfectly legal and legit but that makes you uncomfortable -- irrespective of whether or not your discomfort is rational -- is not “making a concession” either. It’s just bending to your own quirks.

Wearing a seat belt when you drive your car is not “making a concession” to idiot drivers (the other guys). The nanny-staters have decided to make it mandatory by law, but that doesn’t negate the simple fact that wearning a seat belt protects your own interests and is just plain smart.

Doing that which best serves your own well being and your own quirks of preference is no concession to anyone else. It is a matter of choice -- your own choice. You need do none of the things given as examples above, or you may elect to do some or all of those things and many others. You may experience unhappy consequences if you choose poorly. But that's your problem.

Suggesting that the other guy somehow is getting greater “consideration” than you receive because you have such choices to make is to torture reason.

G.

 

[SherpaKroto]

You know, this has me all riled up now. I get real upset when I have to alter my hike plans because it rains, and a slide is too slick to be safe. And winter - darn if I don't have to wear all this extra stuff like crampons and snowshoes. Poke my head above treeline and I have to wear this decidedly unfashionable balaclava! I can't stand all these changes in my otherwise strict and unflexible life. And now those darn hunters insist that I wear this foolish looking orange thing, and even think about where I am hiking! Who do they think they are, coming out in MY woods and making me modify my life like this? I'm mad as hell and not going to take it any more!

Yeah, right. Me and my dog are grabbing my cell phone and going fishing. And don't think I'm going to yield to you hikers (or hunters) when I meet you on the trail. Especially you Republicans and Yankees lovers. It's MY woods, so stay out of them.

And for anyone not getting my sarcasm, please help me pull my firmly stuck tongue out of my cheek

On another note. I come from a hunting family (very few hikers). Some of my earliest memories are with my father, grandfather, great grandfather, uncles, and cousins at the hunting camp. I remember when the "new" camp was built in 1965, modular style (before anyone did that) at my uncle's house, and transported piece by piece to the site. I still go there every year (to fish - I no longer hunt). I have just as much fun there as when I hike. The camp has been passed down from generation to generation, always within the family. Tradition is large in many hunting families, and I love getting together around the fire at the camp with my brother and cousins. If this isn't a little slice of heaven, I don't know what is.

When you see a hunter, smile, chat if you like, move on, and know that you've met another person who is doing what they love to do. I see no problem with that. There is room for all of us.

 

[alpinista]

Nice touch with the antlers above the door, Sherp! I too had hunters in my family -- my grandfather used to actually hunt and trap and fish as a way to take care of his family. But that part of my family history has disappeared, and I'm probably the only one who actually gets into the woods these days. (But I don't hunt animals -- only peaks!)

 

[Stan]

Out of safety I generally, but not always, avoid hunting areas in hunting season. I am less concerned with my equal rights to the outdoors, or anything else, than with doing my share to make the other guy's opportunity to such enjoyment as important as my own. And, though I'm not enthused about hunting, I really really do enjoy eating wild game .. the ultimate free range delight (when properly dressed and prepared).

Other than that, Amen to Sherpa's reply.

... but I can't help wonder if more hunting accidents happen to flatlanders with an attitude.

 

[Peakbagr]

well stated

Grumpy, buckle your seatbelt, here comes a compliment. Simply elegant summary of my thoughts.

And Sherpa, bravo also.

PB

 

[twigeater]

I've hunted (never killed) I like deer meat, and I have plenty of stuff to do in November besides hike - like throw in five cord of wood.

I stay out of the woods more out of respect for the hunters short little one month season than any other reason.

 

[imarchant]

answer to original question

..... I was thinking of doing a Catskill backback next weekend - if you stay on the trails are you likely to interfere with hunters? I know they only get about 1 month per year so I would hate to spoil their few moments in the woods.

I assume by hunting you mean Big Game Shotgun/rifle season. This season starts on Nov. 22 this year, so next weekend should be safe. It will be open season for: various species of small game and fur bearers, Archery for deer and bear.

So have fun, you won't even have to make any concessions.

See the NYSDEC website for more details. http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/wildlife/guide/huntseas.html

Just my opinion: As a group hunters are more considerate of the environment than hikers. Also hunters are making a sacrifice by not hunting 11 out of 12 month of the year.

 

[Rik]

When I go hiking I prepare for anything I encounter that might threaten my safety and enjoyment of the adventure. This would include warm clothing and snowshoes in winter, raingear anytime of year, earplugs for noisy bunk mates, and something orange during hunting season. I don't not hike due to any of them. Doesn't feel like a concession to me just taking care of myself and doing my part to avoid an accident which would be awful to all involved.
As for where hunters mightbe found. I have actually seen hunters fairly high up at times in the Catskills. On a hike up Panther a couple of years ago I came across hunters almost as high as Giant Ledge and could see where something had been dragged from up that high.