Dacks input needed

[GregC]

I'm currently looking to develop new bouldering areas in the Adirondacks, preferably in the southern region. There's only two established bouldering areas in the Adirondacks, Nine Corners Lake in the SoDacks and McKenzie Pond in Saranac Lake..in a park that's 6 million acres. There's boulders everywhere, but finding them in concentrated numbers is difficult. What I would be looking for are groups of boulders (a dozen or so) that are approximately 10-20ft high. If you know of any places that fit this description in the Adirondacks..please post up! Thanks!

For those of you that have no idea what I'm talking about - Bouldering is a discipline of rock climbing that involves very difficult moves on short faces without a rope. To develop these areas would mean to climb the boulders then record the name of each climb and it's difficulty in order to make a topo to share with other climbers.

 

[Kevin]

Greg, You should contact the Mountaineer, some of the folks at EMS or GearX, Rock and River... Not for areas you want to develop, but for what already has been developed. I am sure you know that boulders can be very territorial and may have already climbed an area that you may think you are climbing for the first time. Not too mention some locals may not appreciate it if you advertise their sweet quiet locations.

Down around where I am I have found many little locations for bouldering, but am a bit selfish about sharing, I don't want to make some land owners mad, nor do I want to have to deal with a crowd of folks when I want to go boulder around for a few hours. I just want to limit the impact that I and others may make.

I don't mean to jump on your case...

Also it is good to check with some of the above resources to see what is off limits, and what the local ethics dictate. It is a large parcel of land, but you never know, better to not ruffle too many feathers.

That being said, I have the same thoughts too whenever I drive upstate, wondering where there is an elusive group of problems that are waiting to be discovered.

Good luck on your adventure!
Kevin

 

[TCD]

Agree. Contact The Mountaineer. Also contact Rock and River Guide Service in Keene for more input. There's lots of bouldering around, both on boulders (like at the bottom of the Chapel Pond slabs) and on the many short cliffs (like the bottom of the practice wall at Pitchoff). Have fun.

 

[GregC]

The thing is..any areas/problems the Mountaineer knows of..have already been climbed. I really enjoy finding/cleaning new lines. I'm looking for remote, obscure areas outside of Keene Valley..I don't mind lugging a pad a couple miles. The Adirondack park is huge..there's gotta be dozens of areas that haven't been touched. I posted on here because I'm only one man and I know VFTTrs have covered many miles in the Adirondacks.

 

[AOC-1]

I think the last thing we need in remote backcountry locations in the Adirondacks are "cleaned" (i.e., wirebrushed) and heavily chalked boulders lining the trails. Applied often enough, chalk permanently marks the rock. Removal of moss, lichen and other vegetation also does long-lasting damage to the natural setting. There is certainly room in the Park for all kinds of recreational activity, including bouldering. But the remote backcountry, where leave no trace is the transcendent principle, is no place for it.

 

[GregC]

I couldn't disagree more.
Chalk does not permanently mark the rock and the boulders wouldn't be "heavily" chalked because of the rock texture and because 90% of climbers are not willing to carry a pad a long distance. Almost all the bouders I've seen are surprisingly clean to begin with, very little cleaning would be necessary..all the problems I've already done went without a brushing. If it was necessary.. taking a brush (not a wirebrush, that would ruin the rock texture) to a half finger pad edge on a boulder is no more damaging to the natural setting than the trail you used to get to the location or the vegetation you crushed bushwhacking there.
BTW, the definition of "remote" to most climbers is any hike over an hour.

 

[AOC]

A stroll down the carriage road at the Gunks confirms the lasting visual impact of chalk even on the hard conglomerate rock of the Shawangunk ridge. Discoloration is visible there even immediately following the periodic chalk clean-up efforts. You may be right that few people will venture into the Adirondack backcountry to boulder, and so the impact will be minimized. But then again you said you would "make a topo to share [the problems] with other climbers."

Access debates like this are nothing new, and reasonable people can disagree about what is or is not damaging impact. But I think people should consider potential impact - trifling?/worrisome? - before revealing unknown bouldering spots in the backcountry.

 

[TCD]

Ah, I knew this thread would get interesting, and now it has.

Let's agree on one thing up front: we can carry on this discussion in a reasoned manner, as we did recently on the "Wilderness" thread (a similar topic).

Traditionally, climbing discussions have stayed on the climbing forumsd, and hiking discussions have stayed on the hiking forums. This is a chance to look at the interface between these two very time honored and legitmate branches of "mountain travel" activity.

My opinion:

Both hiking and climbing have aesthetic impacts on the routes that are followed.

To GregC's point, most climbers will not visit a route with a long approach, possibly at least in part because of the heavy gear to be carried. Others (a minority, I think) relish the long approach as part of an overall experience. As a result, climbing impacts are typically closer to the road than hiking impacts.

As far as the degree of impact, there are a few factors at work here. Climbing routes are typically hard surfaced, and it is much harder to make lasting changes to them then to hiking routes, which are on the forest floor and usually leave a large, visible trail. Another factor is that aesthetic impacts, by definition, are a matter of perception. The impact of climbing is lessened by the fact that many of the effects can only be seen up close, and most people don't go up on the cliff to see them. On the other hand, there is an unfortunate subculture of not respecting the land, and it seems to be more prevalent among climbers than among hikers. I can't stand when I find cigarette butts, wads of tape, and the like, discarded at the crag, because it reflects badly on all of us. As to "permanent installations," I think I could argue that bolt anchors, and the occasional slings and rings around a tree, are approximately equivalent to trail signs and markers.

So I think the impact of the two activities, all in all, is about the same. I don't think adherents of either activity are in a position to point at the other and say "My activity is a legitimate use of the land, and yours is not."

And there are enough factions out there who want to make things difficult for both climbers AND hikers, that I think we need to stand together to preserve our opportunities for responsible recreation.

TCD

 

[1ADAM12]

You should take a look at the Adirondack Explorer. There was a big article in this months issue about bouldering and where to go. Interesting read....good luck!

Adam

 

[GregC]

A stroll down the carriage road at the Gunks confirms the lasting visual impact of chalk even on the hard conglomerate rock of the Shawangunk ridge. Discoloration is visible there even immediately following the periodic chalk clean-up efforts. You may be right that few people will venture into the Adirondack backcountry to boulder, and so the impact will be minimized. But then again you said you would "make a topo to share [the problems] with other climbers."

I haven't been to the Gunks after a chalk clean-up. I'm speaking from my experience with Adirondack rock. I'd make a topo if the area was good enough and distirbute it among friends.
I understand where yer coming from though, I don't want the Adirondacks turn into an area like the Gunks. I much rather climb in an area like the Adirondacks..less people, noise and trash. I would consider the impact carefully.

To GregC's point, most climbers will not visit a route with a long approach, possibly at least in part because of the heavy gear to be carried. Others (a minority, I think) relish the long approach as part of an overall experience. As a result, climbing impacts are typically closer to the road than hiking impacts.

I'm part of this minority. A few weekends ago my buddy and I lugged our gear to the face of Big Slide and climbed the first pitch before dark. We slept at the base and woke up to a steady rain. Alot of work for one pitch, but hanging on that face at the second belay was simply amazing.

On the other hand, there is an unfortunate subculture of not respecting the land, and it seems to be more prevalent among climbers than among hikers. I can't stand when I find cigarette butts, wads of tape, and the like, discarded at the crag, because it reflects badly on all of us.

I've never met another climber who would litter, but it happens..the tape isn't from hikers. At Nine Corners (a bouldering area) there's alot of trash because it's a popular spot for campers/hikers. We're doing our best to keep things picked up. We don't like seeing garbage and we don't like being blamed for it.

Thanks for the tip Adam!

 

[Warren]

My opinion:

Both hiking and climbing have aesthetic impacts on the routes that are followed.

Thank you. It's really important to realize this.

Anyway, I would not normally provide input on a topic like this, mostly because of what the potential impact could become. But there is an area that already has attention paid towards it from the DEC and climbing community and they should probably be queried on the idea. Indian Pass. Though if you hike all the way there you may want to just climb.

I will add this, cleaning in Indian Pass or many of the "remote" area is something I would really question.

 

[iceclimber]

I'm currently looking to develop new bouldering areas in the Adirondacks, preferably in the southern region.

There are tons of southern dacks places to boulder. You aren't asking in the right place