Garcia vs BearVault; which is better?

[poison ivy]

Are the Bear Vaults legally approved out west? Id rather not have to buy 2 kinds...

My BearVault was fine with the rangers at Yosemite and Mt. Whitney, so I would assume it's fine else where out there as well.

- Ivy

 

[Brownie]

Ur sacks or sim.

I posted this back on 7/21 about Yosemite Rangers observations:

Elsewhere in the backcountry, bear canisters are required and only
 solid approved ones at that.
We went to a backcountry site where we knew we could use the lockers,
 but we also happened to have soft bear bags made from high tech, 
tear proof Kevlar & Spectra fabrics.
(NOTE: Not approved in Yosemite, 
but were not restricted at previous location in Kings Canyon)

The Yosemite ranger explains this to me:
“Don’t go past here with those non approved units” $250 fine ..or something.

“Just so you know, the bear will chew your tie line, walk off with your bag
 and sink it in the river, squeeze the bag and then drink the juice….”

Humm, I certainly did not think of that! 
Kind of a nutty flavored everlasting gobstopper!

In my opinion the bags I made are considerably more durable than the Ur Sack brand. I have years of sailmaking experience and same materials used in Ur Sacks.
Too bad these bears are smarter than that, or soon will be here!
BTW, I used 3/16" spectra core line to tie up bags, but even that might still get chewed!

Jeff

 

[Jay H]

Seeing this thread updated, I thought I'd update my report on using the Bearvault BV300 in Wrangell St Elias on a 9 day backcountry excursion.

No problems with the bears (above treelines, no recent sign of any bear activity), but we weren't really in prime bear country but I did have a problem with the bear vault itself.

There is no failsafe method to keep you from overtightening the cap which is simply a hard plastic cap. At least twice, I overtightened it by sitting on it and could not open it by shear handpower. Twice, I had to use my screwdriver on my pocketknife and a rock to get the darn lid to unscrew. I broke the cap at one point too and when I returned to REI-Anchorage I exchanged it for a new one. But since there is no protection for overtightening it, one could say it was a Hiker-Vault too!

If you use the BV as a stool, make sure you either sit on the non-cap side or do not rotate clockwise. I would use the BV with my 'nocs to look at things so sometimes I would turn while on it.

Jay

 

[DougPaul]

If you use the BV as a stool, make sure you either sit on the non-cap side or do not rotate clockwise. I would use the BV with my 'nocs to look at things so sometimes I would turn while on it.

Did you try sitting on it and rotating counter-clockwise?

Doug

 

[Jay H]

I tried that too... Besides the usual stick in between the legs and try to twist.

Of course, in 35degree weather in Alaska, finding hand strength sans gloves is somewhat hard too but I tried for a bit until I gave up and resorted to my pocketknife. Fortunately, I didn't have to destroy the whole cover. If so, I would have a nasty letter to write to the bearvault folks.

Jay

 

[erd]

As the one whose Ursack got taken apart (see Matt's earlier post) I should point out that this was in the Western High Peaks, Duck Hole to be precise.

Ted.

 

[spaddock]

I've also heard that you need to be careful with the Bearvault in wet/freezing conditions as the lid can freeze up.

-Shayne

 

[una_dogger]

I got the Bearvault. Hefty 80 buck price tag. But, given my feelings on bears, I thought it better to put my money where my mouth is.

 

[ADKMan]

I have both the original Garcia and the new BearVault solo. I don't think you could go wrong with either brand. I really like the relative small size of the "solo" BearVault unit. You can easily stuff a weekends worth of food for two in it and it will fit inside most overnight packs.

 

[DougPaul]

I've also heard that you need to be careful with the Bearvault in wet/freezing conditions as the lid can freeze up.

Quite likely to be true of other cannisters too. (Just a guess.)

One could put silicone grease around the opening and threads. Might help to prevent freezing.

And if it becomes frozen, pour some hot water on the lid-cannister junction.
Or if your pot is big enough, you can just dunk the cannister upside down--works for a nalgene bottle.

Doug

 

[SAR-EMT40]

The Garcia is a design that shouldn't/doesn't have the problem with the lid freezing. The Bearvault has a screw on lid, it probably would have a problem with water freezing on the threads. It is a large amount of surface area with the water frozen on it. When the water freezes it expands helping lock the threads and also you have ice in shear to open. Not an easy task at all.

Keith

 

[DougPaul]

The Garcia is a design that shouldn't/doesn't have the problem with the lid freezing. The Bearvault has a screw on lid, it probably would have a problem with water freezing on the threads. It is a large amount of surface area with the water frozen on it. When the water freezes it expands helping lock the threads and also you have ice in shear to open. Not an easy task at all.

Did a bit of searching: only turned up one report of a bearvault freezing. The reporters were able to thaw the threads. No reports of Garcias freezing.

The Garcia has some sort of moving latch mechanism which I'm sure can freeze if it gets wet. Haven't examined one-it could be less likely to freeze than the Bearvault. If the moving parts are farther from the surface, they might be harder to thaw than the bearvault.

I just examined my bearvault--the cylinder is slightly flexible (it can be crushed a fraction of an inch along a diameter). I was able to flex it against the lid. Perhaps this could be used to break the ice.

My earlier comment about silicone was motivated by Bearvault's offering of silicone in case the lid is hard to turn. Would probably also tend to keep water out of the threads.

Either cannister can be carried in a plastic bag to avoid the whole probem. The threads/mechanisms can also be dried. Certainly worth being careful with any cannister if temps are below freezing.

Doug

 

[SAR-EMT40]

The mechanism on the Garcia wouldn't be prone to freezing. Even if it did you have much greater mechanical advantage that would easily overcome it if it happened.

Keith

 

[erd]

Discussion of freezing issues with bear canisters rather begs the question: do you need a canister under those conditions? If a bear canister has frozen up solid, it's probably winter, and (at least on the E coast) a canister is probably no longer required. Bears do emerge occasionally over winter (they do not truly hibernate) but I rarely do more than a hang (against smaller critters) from November on. Comments, anyone?

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Discussion of freezing issues with bear canisters rather begs the question: do you need a canister under those conditions? If a bear canister has frozen up solid, it's probably winter,...

It's not the winter, I would think. It is the Sept/Oct tme when you have a sudden cold snap, or when it drops well below freezing at night.

Interesting, though.. IIRC, the DEC regulations say nothing about seasons. I guess by law, they will be required. There is at least one ranger who would give a ticket for not having a canister when it's -30.

 

[lumberzac]

It's not the winter, I would think. It is the Sept/Oct tme when you have a sudden cold snap, or when it drops well below freezing at night.

Interesting, though.. IIRC, the DEC regulations say nothing about seasons. I guess by law, they will be required. There is at least one ranger who would give a ticket for not having a canister when it's -30.

Pete,
The DEC bear canister regulation says they have to be used between April 1 & November 30.
http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/propregs/part190sect13text.html