Ironic or not? Bear articles.

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rtrimarc

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Why does there seem to be more human - bear encounters in the ADKs? than the Whites? Is it Just more bears and more people thing? From what I have read these encounters happen at established camp areas. Does it also happen when backcountry off trail camping?

Thanks
Chuck
 
chuck said:
Why does there seem to be more human - bear encounters in the ADKs? than the Whites? Is it Just more bears and more people thing? From what I have read these encounters happen at established camp areas. Does it also happen when backcountry off trail camping?

Thanks
Chuck

The main problem area is in the Eastern High Peaks Wilderness, in the areas around Marcy Dam, Lake Colden, Flowed Lands, and the Johns Brook Valley in addition to some public campgrounds throughout the park. These areas see a very high concentration of campers in a relatively small area many of which are inexperienced, so they don't always practice the best methods of food storage. Over the course of many years the bears in the area began to realize that hikers food is an easy meal. This seemed to increase even more when all of the local dumps were closed. I’m not all that familiar with the Whites, so I’m not sure how the conditions are different.
 
What are the odds of a black bear in the northeast attacking for no reason(no food involved). I have only stumbled across bears twice in my life and I just started clapping and they ran away. :eek:
 
cp2000 said:
What are the odds of a black bear in the northeast attacking for no reason(no food involved). I have only stumbled across bears twice in my life and I just started clapping and they ran away. :eek:

Very low but as some New Yorkers remember, there was a horrible incident in the southern Catskills a couple of years ago where a baby was taken and killed by a black bear. The child was near the edge of the woods at a Jewish resort with Mom not too far away when - for some unknown reason - the baby was taken. An extreme rarity but it happened nonetheless.
 
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"According to Martyn Obbard, a research scientist with Ontario's ministry of natural resources, there are generally 10 to 20 bear attacks in all of North America each year, resulting in two or three fatalities. Wolf attacks are even rarer. In fact, says Lorne Fitch, a Lethbridge, Alta.-based habitat biologist with the Alberta government, bees kill more people in the wild every year than do any of the large predatory mammals. "The chances of being hurt by an animal in the back country," he adds, "are demonstrably lower than the chances of being killed in your vehicle on the way there."

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0012207
 
POstr-The bear hanging off the wire is an old one that keeps going around. It is pretty funny to see! The Long Lake is not New York though. Can't remember which state off the top of my head. Maybe Michigan????
 
some bear fatality stats

In the last 100 years, black bears have killed just 52 people. For each person killed by a black bear:

two are killed by a grizzly
45 are killed by dogs
249 are killed by lighting
60,000 are killed by humans
-- Lynn Rogers

(Source AMC Outdoors September 2005)

[edit: I don't remember, but I assume these are US-only stats]
 
I've actually read quite a bit on the subject (bear-human interactions) and it's a pretty fascinating topic. Stephan Herrero, author of Bear Attacks: Causes and Avoidance, as well as several landmark studies on the subject, provides some interesting insight.

While jrichards quoted stats are correct, there has been a significantly larger number of black bear "incidents" with humans than with Grizzly, it's just that the overwhelming majority of those are minor, both in scope and injury. Most of those occur between food conditioned or habituated bears attempting to get food away from people (just as the article describes). The Grizzly on the other hand has less conflicts, but a greater percentage involve serious injury or death. Mathematics plays a part too. There are only about 60,000 Grizzlies in NA, while there are closer to 800,000 Black Bears, and (due to their tolerant nature) they tend to live in areas that bring them into contact with humans more frequently. Larger numbers mean bigger volume of incidents, despite the fact that the BB is documentably more accepting and passive towards humans.

As to the questions asked; It will just be my guess (based on my understanding), but I'll try;

chuck said:
Why does there seem to be more human - bear encounters in the ADKs than the Whites? Is it Just more bears and more people thing? From what I have read these encounters happen at established camp areas. Does it also happen when backcountry off trail camping?

Probably a combination of factors, but suffice to say there may be a larger concentration of bears in the Adirondacks than in the Whites. Also, might have something to do with the fact that there are larger concentrations of very popular backcountry campsites located in areas that are frequented by this greater number of bears. Bears are drawn to these areas due to the "ease at getting a meal". I also remember reading that in 2003-2004, there were really low berry yields in these parts and that often causes bears to expand their ranges in order to forage farther for food, thus creating a greater potential contact with more people. Makes sense, since in those two years, I saw more bears that I ever have before. Not just hiking either, they were in towns, lawns, along roads, you name it, they were everywhere. Haven't seen any this year, lots of sign though (scat, etc.). I've never been visited at backcountry campsites (or even less popular lean-tos areas) so I wouldn’t worry there.

cp2000 said:
What are the odds of a black bear in the northeast attacking for no reason(no food involved). I have only stumbled across bears twice in my life and I just started clapping and they ran away.

As explained by Herrero, despite the fact that Black Bears are much more tolerant and passive by nature, they will, on rare occasions attack and kill humans. The general nature of a Black Bear attack is different than with Grizzlies though. 75-80% of BB attacks, including the 2002 Catskill attack, are predatory in nature, which is to say the bear intends to eat its victim. Grizzly attacks, OTOH, tend to be more defensive or the result of a sudden encounter (startling it while hiking, etc.) than predatious in nature. It may decide to eat its victim later, but the incident was not initially precipitated by predator/prey behavior. Also, close to 50% of BB victims are kids under 18, which I assume is the bear understanding that smaller, means less resistance in the predator/prey struggle. That’s why, unlike the grizzly, the current advice given if attacked by a BB is to FIGHT BACK. Playing dead to a animal that WANTS you dead, will most likely GET you dead.

The good thing, and there is one, is that most of these BB fatal encounters involve rural/non-habituated bears. Meaning they tend to occur in remote areas (out west/N. Canada) with bears that have less contact and experience with humans. While certainly possible, its highly unlikely an adult hiker will be stalked, attacked and eaten here in the east anytime soon . Besides 52 deaths, despite MILLIONS and MILLIONS of potential “meal” opportunities we’ve offered them in the last 100 years ain’t too shabby (unless your one of the 52)

That’s my understanding anyway.
 
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my personal experience

In the past 10 years I've had bear experiences in the woods about 15 times. Rarely in the Whites, mostly north and south of there. For instance, last year while hiking the Cohos trail though Nash Stream Forest we caught a glimpse of a bear as it ran away from our footsteps, crashing though the brush. A few days later we saw a bear near the base of Owl's head trail. We only saw it for a few seconds before it dashed off though the raspberries it was eating.

However, I did bump into mom and cubs in the Carter area near ME. She stood her ground, got up on her hind legs, and let out a few snorts. We backed away slowly and bushwacked a wide semicircle around her. But mostly the mom's just move their cubs away from us and I'm not even left with enough time to take a picture.

That said, I use the Ray Jardine method of camping. That is, I cook about a mile or more from my campsite. I camp outside well-used areas. I also do Ray one step further and hang my food as a matter of habit (this after an encounter with a skunk). This method isn't always practical (for the unpracticed) and sometimes isn't legal (ie Tuckerman ravine's drainage area and areas of northern Coos county) but it does cut down the chances of problem bear encounters.

Something to think about: the largest, meanest looking bears I've seen were in a parking lots along the Kangamangus highway. They're usually trying to rob dumpsters. I learned to try not to park to close to a dumpster.

But I'm not really a bear-hugger. I know a few hunters and agree with them that bear hunts should continue to be allowed. Now, I donno if baiting should be considered "sporting", but I'm not an expert there. And there might be a tradeoff. A bear might become habituated to donuts, vanilla, etc... when baited, but then it might become afraid of human-tainted foot smells even if the hunt fails, if it was shot at. This would instill a healthy fear of humans. I wish I had more info if this is a legitimate line of thinking.
 
bear-hugger

I have only had 2 bear run-ins. One in Long Lake, one at Marcy Dam(someone elses lean-to fortunately). I have no problem with bear hunts assuming the population can support it, and hunters are ethical. I found these two articles troublesome, simply because one puts bears is a somewhat bad light, and the other raises the hunting issue which may increase hunting of bears not for sport, but out of fear or hate. I hope that isn't the case. And i found it ironic they were on the same page of the TU.

When we thru-hiked the NP Trail last October, we ran into a father-son bear hunting team at the Cedar River Lean-to. They seemed like good folks, but had been in the lean-to 5 nites in a row(a no-no, right?), and had left cooked bacon out in front of the lean-to the night before we arrived as "bait". We didn't appreciate that much, but they hadn't seen a bear in 5 days, and we had no encounters that evening(or the entire 9 days) either. So no harm, no foul? It definitely soured me a little to hunters in the Dacks.
 
rtrimarc said:
When we thru-hiked the NP Trail last October, we ran into a father-son bear hunting team at the Cedar River Lean-to. They seemed like good folks, but had been in the lean-to 5 nites in a row(a no-no, right?), and had left cooked bacon out in front of the lean-to the night before we arrived as "bait". We didn't appreciate that much, but they hadn't seen a bear in 5 days, and we had no encounters that evening(or the entire 9 days) either. So no harm, no foul? It definitely soured me a little to hunters in the Dacks.

As far as I know it's not legal to hunt using bait or from a trail or shelter in NY, so either these guys were poaching (and should have been reported) or they weren't actually hunting. Hopefully they were only bored and just wanted to see a bear, not shoot one. Some say the fact that it's not legal to hunt with bait (in specific, remote areas) in NY is a factor that has helped lead to the current bear population problem.

As far as animal attacks go; rabid skunks, racoons and coyote pose a far more common and real threat, and how often do you hear about those ?
 
they seemed to be hunting - appropriate gear, weaponry etc, and the son went out in his canoe solo and armed, while the older guy stayed back while we were there. I agree it was unethical, and in retrospect coulda/shoulda been reported when we hit Wakely Dam.

It certainly wasn't helping anyone - the bears, hikers, or even them, they were still shutout. Pretty sad commentary on the state of hunting in the Dacks, although it was only one episode and shouldn't be representative of all hunters, it doesn't help their cause.
 
A slow night at work, allowed me a little time to do a little more internet research on the matter. It brought up a few interesting points, as to the original question.

Ironic or not? Bear articles.............
[amateur speculation] ;)

I'll take article 2 first (cuz it's easier?)......... It seems to be a fairly innocuous article about bear hunting in NY. It's tone is moderate and I don't detect anything that would really suggest a "You need to go kill these animals before it's too late" tone. I don't hunt, but it seems to be an interesting read directed at exploring the "thrills" of bear hunting.

Not surprising at all. A quick scan of NYS DEC's -BLACK BEAR MANAGEMENT PLAN- pages show that the annual hunting harvest is one of the prime means to "control" the BB populations for the DEC. Even with the increasing yields (which in and of itself is prime evidence of growth) all indications are that the NYS BB populations are still increasing. Increasing populations means the bears have to spread out more, which then causes more overlapping human-bear ecozones and further issues. Higher densities of bear indicate greater human-bear issues in the future, which is bad for both the human and the bear. Seems like Wildlife Management 101 to me.

The DEC should probably be supportive of even higher bear-kill yields (i.e. more active hunting) in order to stablize growth and keep populations at healthy levels. So long as indications are that that is the case no problem with articles like this, even for an non-hunter like me.

Article #1 On the other hand - I have a bigger problem with. But more in the crappy sensationalized journalism (big surprise) aspect than anything. It's a friggin news article, not a "made for TV movie". The whole tone makes it seem there are marauding bears at every turn in the ADK's, how bogus. Sure populations are bulging, and there is obvious concern that these habituated bears have a greater likelihood of continued occasional (MINOR) incidents between bears and humans, particularly in years that food is scare and bears range farther than normal and interact with human more. Bear canisters are an obvious measure to "attempt" to force bears back to a more "typical" diet, thus reducing interactions. Sucks that is comes to that, but a small price really.

As for if you are at greater risk for being involved in a serious or fatal BB encounter? You probably are, insomuch as populations increases and ecozones collide, more encounters will occur, -SOME- inevitably more serious than others. But your talking the difference between getting struck by lightning on a Tuesday and getting struck at all. Pretty damn insignificant.

The two articles are probably just coincidental. One is descent the other is crap.

[/amateur speculation] ;)
 
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Thank you good analysis .........

"The whole tone makes it seem like there are marauding bears at every turn in the ADK's,"

I agree with you.

This is what probably got me wondering about the differences in bear issues in ADKs vs. Whites. Reading souped up articles like that one. The way it was written makes it sounds like the bears are some roving group of trail pirates all over the place in the ADKs.

Thanks
Chuck
 
I agree withs Mavs analysis of the first article. In particular this sensationalism:
"As dusk settled on our small huddle of campsites, the bears showed up en masse. It was a veritable feeding frenzy and the most terrifying part of it was that the ensuing chaos was masked in the murky half-light of dusk. It was a horrific confusion of screaming, terrified campers, grumbling bears and the shuffling of people feet and bear paws -- all accompanied by the chorus of banging pots and pans."

In my very limited experience it would be more acurately stated to say if your food is not properly protected the bears WILL get it. I observed this personally with a neighboring campers food. We were using canisters and had no problem at all.
 
rtrimarc said:
left cooked bacon out in front of the lean-to the night before we arrived as "bait".

I've been told, but never verified, that to bait in NH, you need to tell the local game warden where you're baiting and what bait you're using. Of course, I don't know what the compliance rate is for this. :)
 
chuck said:
Why does there seem to be more human - bear encounters in the ADKs? than the Whites? Is it Just more bears and more people thing? From what I have read these encounters happen at established camp areas. Does it also happen when backcountry off trail camping?

Chuck

I agree with you that bear problems started sooner in the Adirondacks, and are more severe there, but they're clearly on an upward trend in both areas.

Here's a speculation: there are more people in the ADK's backcountry camping in good bear habitat than in the Whites. Good bear habitat being generally relatively low areas. such as Marcy dam, the "flowed lands", and many of the popular ADK canoe routes. The ADK's have far more wild low-elevation lands than the Whites.

Another speculation may be that all these bear pops went through a low point, but the bear population in the Adirondacks started growing from a higher low point than in the Whites., and there's a greater bear density there nowdays.

Bear encounters of the camp-raiding sort almost never occur at unfrequented one-off backcountry campsites. It's always the heavily and repeatedly camped-in areas. Such places would be much more rewarding for a bear to cruise regularly, and offer much greater opportunities for bears to pick up bad habits. Bears are always looking for the best effort-reward payoff. Another reason to avoid these heavy-use areas, if the crowds aren't enough of a disincentive.
 
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