Leather Boots in Winter

[dr_wu002]

I'm heading into my first season of winter hiking and I've surely invested a lot of money so far: snowshoes, gaiters, gloves, hats, coats, pants, tops, liners, ice axe, crampons and on and on. I feel like I'm fairly well equipped and feeling a bit maxed out too when I look at all the receipts if you know what I mean.

The last issue for me is boots. Right now I just have a pair of regular leather hiking boots (that I love) and some sno-seal (which really seems to work) but I've felt a little intimidated about shelling out $2-400 on plastic boots, at least not right now. At least not today -- maybe in January. I should add the following things however... for my first winter season, I'm planning on just dayhikes. No overnighters until probably next winter (I don't have a winter tent or sleeping bag yet). Also, the cold really doesn't bother me at all, I think I have anti-freeze for blood. I dream of moving to Antarctica. Cold toes won't necessarily be the issue except if I fall in at a stream crossing. If I wore liner socks with a heavy wool sock over (and maybe a vbl in between) I doubt I'd feel a thing till about -20 or -30F. And as far as sno-seal goes, so far so good -- I've trudged through quite a bit of snow lately in my treated boots and I've actually been pretty surprised as to how dry my feet have stayed.

So my question is, can anyone give me any real reason (I'm open to any suggestions) as to why I need to go out and buy plastic boots right away, or can I survive with my leathers for 1 season. Most likely I'll have a pair of plastic boots (or something equivalent) by March, but still -- is it something that I should like, not eat for a few weeks so that I can afford them type of thing? Or seriously, can I get by with leather boots for the time being? Does anyone dayhike in winter exclusively in leather boots or am I getting into some dangerous stuff by doing it? I do want to get the nice plastic boots and if I had to I could afford them but if not I'd rather wait until my wallet gets a chance to relax a bit. Thanks.

 

[Turnbill]

Well Doc, I've hiked winters in leather boots for 30 odd years. IMO if you've got a pair of good fitting leather boots (i.e., roomy enough for a thicker sock)that are treated with the waterproofing of your choice, you'll be fine. Plastic boots definitely have advantages, like overnighting in winter. Unlike leather boots, plastics don't absorb water. You can take their liners into your bag with so they'll be warm and dry in the morning. Your leathers will be frozen bricks. That said - I've stilll done plenty of overnight trips with leather boots and somehow mananged to survive by stomping around with cold feet for the first half hour or so.

Anyway, I think you can save your money for the moment and first make sure you really WANT to hike in the winter before you invest in plastics.

 

[snowshoe]

I agree If you are just doing day hikes then a leather boot will do just fine. I tried the plastic boots once while doing Mt Washington and I hated them. I feel more comfortable in a leather gore tex boot. Your best bet is to use your current boots and see how they feel. If your like me who does not get cold easy you will be fine. I hope you got a semi rigid crampon. If they are a rigid crampon and your boots have flex you can risk breaking the crampons. If that is the case you might want to look into a stiffer boot. You can great deals from Sierra trading Post although they can be hit or miss.

 

[Oldsmores]

Turnbill's got it right. I've been hiking in winter for a long time in leather boots, and for day hikes they work just fine. The only caveat I'd put on that is in extreme cold (below -10° F or so) they may not have enough insulation. Even then I'm usually OK when I'm moving... I've even done overnights, tho I'll admit that getting them on in the morning can be a painful experience

 

[dr_wu002]

Anyway, I think you can save your money for the moment and first make sure you really WANT to hike in the winter before you invest in plastics.

I've always insisted that I don't start enjoying the weather until it dips below 15F. I imagine I'll be happy.

I hope you got a semi rigid crampon. If they are a rigid crampon and your boots have flex you can risk breaking the crampons.

I got the G10. It works well so far with my leather boot.

 

[Tramper Al]

Plastic

You are getting what you asked for, testimony from non-plastic users that you do not 'need' plastic boots.

Just be aware, though, that for every 3 leather hikers who reply there might be 10 winter hikers here who budgeted for plastics, love them, and never looked back. They are less likely to speak up and give you the opinion that you may not want to hear.


And I would not call -10F "extreme cold", not for the WMNF. Me, I'd skimp somewhere else.

 

[ripple]

Leathers are just fine for day hikes, and if you are carefull, overnights. Plastics have their advantages, but I wouldn't let not having plastics stop you from getting out on the trails. I would recommend insulated boots. Extra socks are a must, and a vb liner or plastic bags would come in handy. If you do overnight in leather boots put them under your sleeping bag at the feet end, they won't freeze there, you will be a much happier camper.
You will also find people you dislike plastics, and people that love them. You might not hear from those peole who do love their plastics b/c they can't really see why you wouldn't be able to use leathers, especially for day hikes.

Tramper Al
When has someone not wanting to hear an opinion, ever stopped someone from stating it here?

 

[daxs]

While cruising thru the Cabela's catalogue I saw boot warmer insoles similar to the warmers you use for the hands and feet. Has anyone tried these in their boots at night? I wonder if these insoles would help keep leather boots more pliable and not as frigid in the am. I have bought some and will be trying them out over New Years.

 

[afka_bob]

There are many paths to enlightenment, grasshopper -- I think you could go either way and do just fine. I've used 3/4-shank leathers for the past few winters (12?) and love them. I used plastics for about 10 years before that and they were great, too.

If you are concerned about warmth in leather boots, get some inslulated gaiters that cover the whole boot (except for the soles). I have a pair, and sometimes they are too warm to use. They work well with plastic boots, too.

Also, my leather boots fit in my sleeping bag, so on overnights, I either sleep with them or pull them into my bag for an hour or so before I want get up in the morning. I've also just left the outside the bag and put hot water bottles in them while making and eating breakfast, and that works well, too.

The plastics are obviously good for overnights because the inner boot never has to come off, but I like the down booties I now use when I take my leather boots off for the night.

 

[jfb]

Leather boots come in many styles, some may be suitable for winter dayhikes and some may not. When I first tried winter hiking, I had light leather boots and it took about 2 miles to realize that they were not suitable for winter temperatures. I then bought some heavier single-leather boots and used them for several years of winter hiking and ice climbing, but had a few times when my toes got pretty cold and numb. Later, I bought some leather double-boots and have had no problem since. If you decide to wear single-leathers, I'd recommend bringing along a pair of down (or synthetic) booties as an emergency backup.

Here's a comparison test of some double-boots: http://climbing.com/equipment/boots218/

 

[maineguy]

Well, I for one don't agree with much of the above. I have a good pair of leather boots (Limmers, the kind you can buy off-the-shelf) and I find that they are just not warm enough once the temperature drops much below freezing. They are fine if you "keep moving", but I like to stop and admire the view, have lunch, etc. Most leather boots don't have sufficient insulation for the winter, that's why you see leather boots (usually work boots) advertised as having "thinsulate" or some other insulating material. You could of course add gaiters, but some insulated gaiters cost as much as winter pac boots.

Most people who use leather boots in winter agree that they are downright lousy for overnighters. Well, what if you have an "unplanned" overnighter? My Sorels may be a little clunky, but I can spend the coldest night in the woods hunkered down and my feet will be the least of my problems.

It obviously varies with the individual, just like some people can hike in the winter in just a shirt, and others are all bundled up in a parka.

As they say, just my .02

 

[Reekee]

They say for every pound on your feet feels like 5 in your pack. I have both leathers and plastics and I do all my winter trips in the leathers. When you do an overnight be sure to put them in a plastic bag and put them in the bottom off your bag for the night. Hot water bottles in the boots in the morning is a nice trick as well.

 

[SherpaKroto]

YMMV, but I hiked with heavyweight leathers (Molitors, circa 1972) until 2000 when I bought my Koflach Degre's. I bought them because I was cold, and I started doing more overnights.

daxs: let me know how those chemical insoles work out. I bought 2 pair at the Mountaineer, but have not yet tried them out.

 

[Rick]

I honestly think that if you are looking for a good warm boot for dayhiking and don't feel ready to step up to plastics, look at the Pac boots with the non-removable liner, like what columbia and TNF make. They can be had for~ $80-$100. I wore plastic boots for a few years and while the are warm (especially if you stop to eat for 5 minutes in -10 degree weather), I have wide feet and found them always painful.

I will wear my leather Merrell Ridgelines on some milder winter dayhikes, they are 3mm FGL with a very stiff sole. But I find that I am pressing the limits at zero degrees and must really keep moving to keep my feet warm- not a good boot to have on if you injure yourself and have to limp slowly.

I picked up a pair of the columbia "titanium buga-something or others" a couple of years ago and I love them for winter dayhikes, they are light and warm and fit my G-10's perfectly. I use my old sorels for winter overnights, but have been tempted looking at the new 2004 Koflach line.

 

[Tramper Al]

Tramper Al
When has someone not wanting to hear an opinon, ever stopped someone from stating itr here?

Well, perhaps. Despite current evidence that I'll even offer an opinion on why others might not offer their opinions, I hope I am not the only one here who tries to exercise some restraint, at least sometimes.

As for plastics, I think Maineguy said it very well. My plastics are such idiot-proof cold weather protection for my toes, it is just never an issue, no matter what the day (or overnight) brings.

If I could find a comparable unfailing system for say my hands, my face, my hydration, my trailhead parking, getting Baxter reservations, etc., I'd be all over it.

 

[bandana4me]

questions

1. Can I ask why you purchased an ice axe?
2. If you plan on using crampons, are your leather boots stiff enough not to break the crampons?


Just somethings to think about.

 

[afka_bob]

1. Can I ask why you purchased an ice axe?

(Though you asked dr wu002, I can answer for me):

Because no one was giving them away for free.

2. If you plan on using crampons, are your leather boots stiff enough not to break the crampons?

My crampons are fine after 12 years of use with 3/4-steel-shank-leather-boot use, so I'd say yes.

 

[Paul]

I agree with MaineGuy and Tramper Al.

This discussion is very reminiscent of a topic that surfaced last year on this board regarding shells and their value. There were people trying to make that case that it is possible to hike in winter without one in an effort to save money. Well, it is certainly possible to hike without a shell in the winter (I would argue not very safe) just as it is possible to hike without insulated boots in the winter. Hiking without insulated boots is a risk I choose not to take. Having seeing pictures of persons with severe frostbite on their toes and hearing of the pain involved with that, I am not interested in experiencing that myself or seeing anyone on the trail or in my group dealing with that.

Insulated boots, primarily technical styles (either plastic or otherwise (Scarpa models, LaSportiva, etc.)) have other advantages aside from their inherent warmth. Attaching crampons that utilize the cramp-o-matic system is trivial - no messing around with straps and getting cold hands, etc... Pac-boots are fine for snowshoeing and provide perhaps the best warmth of all, but are inadequate for mountaineering requiring semi-technical footing like kick-stepping or crampon use.

My advice is to spend the bucks for winter boots that you can "grow" into. You may not use crampons this season, but you may next. You will end up spending more money purchasing a pair of boots that gets you by for now but ultimately ends up being inadequate for future activities.

 

[afka_bob]

further enlightenment for grasshoppers everywhere....

Dr. Wu, et al:

Yeah, I got frostbite on one foot once. Never want that again!

Of course, at the time, I was wearing plastic double boots. I blame me, not the boots, mind you, but I've never gotten frostbite in many more winters in leather boots before and since. Again, I (mostly) blame me, not the boots.

You aready seem to have leather hiking boots. Instead of $200-400 plastic mountaineering boots, you could simply add a pair of these insulated gaiters for $90. They will keep you very warm in your present boots. If and when your "progress" to plastic boots, you can use the gaiters for really cold days (and nights) with teh plastic boots.

There are many paths to enlightenment -- and there is also a measure of amusement to be found in watching 8K-meteresque mountaineers scaling 4K-foot peaks.

And there are very good reasons to choose every piece of gear mentioned in this thread. You have to decide what you want to do, what you want to spend, and what works best for you.

 

[Mike P.]

After quickly scrolling thru everything, What kind of Leather boots? Steel shank, real stiff? Crampons? G-10?s

My first couple of winter were done in full steel shank Traverses. Other advantage of Plastic & a few heavy leather mountaineering boots is ability to use step-in or hybrid crampons which for me are a lot quicker to get on & off my feet so I sit less & keep moving more.

Assume since this is your first year, you are out there now & if not hiking with people who have lot's of experience you are hiking smaller shorter hikes to get used to your new gear. (White Arrow on Monadnock is a great place to get used to crampons - be careful coming down not to catch your points) Key is to learn on more forgiving terrain what works for you.

I wear plastic as I've been out on too many slushly trails & I did not practice enough with regular strap -on crampons to get them on quickly. Crampons are easier now + at the time I bought Plastics I had the ability to pay less than $130 dollars for new boots.

Last time I tried to join an AMC chapter hike (schedules did not fit) the leader told me he had bought Insulated boots like the Columbia Bugabootoo, warm & lighter than plastics with some advantages over 3 season leathers. May be too flexible for pro-longed crampon use but good for snowshoes. Several NH 4k peaks can be done with little or now crampon use. (Tecumseh, Pierce, Waumbek, Field & Tom are a few)